[ID3 Dev] Genre suggestion

Mon Sep 18 06:39:45 PDT 2006

Admittedly, I am new to the ID3 meta data world.
And I know I can create my own genre and edit the meta data on my MP3's
to support the genre. Of course I could place all the "acceptable"
content on my son's player and hide the USB cable too. 

And I fully understand that any implementation of an adult content
rating system will likely have a potential to be circumvented. But my
kids are younger. As they get older, I actually hope they are smart
enough to find a work-around. When they are at that age, they will
likely be able to handle the type of content I am currently trying to
protect them from. When they reach that age, if I have done my job as a
parent they will be able to make their own decisions. 

> But sheltering your kids from the world 
> isn't protecting them. Even if you prevent 
> them from playing certain songs because of 
> language of "adult-themes", they're still 
> going to be exposed to it else where; on 
> tv, in movies," 

Even though this comment likely came from a non-parent, I agree. I can't
say I like my kids seeing adds for Viagra on prime-time TV either. The
FCC needs to do a better job of regulating what we see on TV (my
opinion). But just because this stuff surrounds us doesn't mean we
should throw our arms up and surrender. I feel we are MORALLY OBLIGATED
to provide parents with a method to help to control what our YOUNG kids
are exposed to. 

What I am looking for is an industry-wide supported tool to help
parents. Where the player manufacturers are looking to boast more
features, you'd think the big players would jump on board with this
(Apple and Microsoft take note). V-chip is a good example of a feature
that does not get enough press time. More marketing dollars could be
spent educating users.

Again I am not looking for a system that is bullet-proof. I like Pat's
analogy about locking your front door. 
But give me the tools to be a good parent. I think if we as a technology
community can implement this sort of feature, it would set a good
example for other technologies and markets. 

I'm happy to see I have provoked some dialogue about this. It shows I am
not alone.

Enough ranting

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Furrie [mailto:pfurrie at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:18 PM
To: id3v2 at id3.org
Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Genre suggestion

Brian,

While utilities might come into existance to disable to flag, so what?
The 
lock on the front door of my house is easily foiled by learning how to
make 
a use a bump key from YouTube, but I still lock the door.  Do you?  
Probably.

And is it censorship?  Again, so what if it is?  I don't tell the kids
what 
my wife and I do in the bedroom.  Censorship?  So what.  Part of being a

parent is making choices about what a kid is exposed to at a certain
age.  
For mine, they get differing levels of access based on their ability to
deal 
with it.  You can call it censorship, I'll call it limiting.

We're just looking for tools to help us set up limiting for our kids.
I'm 
not going to stop trying just because some kids might try to get around
it.  
Others aren't.  Even if you disagree, why would you care if someone
tried, 
or that the tools were made to exist in order to make that attempt?

Don't censor the effort.

Pat

>From: Brian Mearns <bmearns at coe.neu.edu>
>Reply-To: id3v2 at id3.org
>To: id3v2 at id3.org
>Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Genre suggestion
>Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:25:35 -0400
>
> >Tim isn't looking for why it won't work, he's looking
> > for ways to make it work.
>
>Spoken like a true manager.
>
>Personally, I have minor objections to this as a matter of principle;
it's 
>a minor form of censorship, though granted it's no worse than the
V-chip 
>and similar technologies. But sheltering your kids from the world isn't

>protecting them. Even if you prevent them from playing certain songs 
>because of language of "adult-themes", they're still going to be
exposed to 
>it else where; on tv, in movies, from their friends, siblings,
class-mates, 
>&c. The important thing is to teach your kids the difference between
what 
>they see or hear, and what's appropriate for them to say or do. And no 
>amount of sheltering will make up for good parenting. Now I know that 
>sounds very high and mighty, and I'm not trying to accuse anyone of
being a 
>bad parent; I understand there's a lot of scary stuff out there and we
want 
>to protect our kids from it. But like I said, they're going to be
exposed 
>to it one way or another, and hiding it from them, not addressing the
real 
>issue, is only going to make it harder to cope with when they finally
are.
>
>Alright, so that was less ID3 and more rant. Come down to it, like Tom 
>said, you can't possibly prevent someone from editing the file they've 
>downloaded. If this system really did take off, it wouldn't take more
than 
>a few days before download.com is filled with freeware apps to disable
to 
>flag, and blogs all over the web have instructions on how to do it in
note 
>pad.
>
>-Brian Mearns
>
>Pat Furrie wrote:
>>Tom,
>>
>>Now, I don't know if Tim's suggestion is workable.  But he does bring
up a 
>>problem he's at least giving some thought to solving, and I'm certain 
>>other people have had this as a problem with which to deal.  It's the
sort 
>>of thing that brought about the ratings codes in movies (quite some
time 
>>ago) and ratings on TV (more recently).  I've got kids of my own who I

>>want to have some way of helping distinguish which music is
appropriate.
>>
>>You've pointed out a couple of challenges.  Perhaps you could provide
some 
>>constructive analysis.  Devil's advocate is too easy; anyone can do
that.  
>>But as they say, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of
the 
>>problem.  Tim isn't looking for why it won't work, he's looking for
ways 
>>to make it work.
>>
>>Tim: I'd like to see a set of method with more granularity than just 
>>"adult" or not.  "Adult" is a bit slippery, and is defined differently
by 
>>different people.  However, the existance of certain key words and 
>>concepts are more objective.  You might want to look at how TV has
done 
>>ratings, and model it after that.  This way any "adult content" tag 
>>methodology could leverage the methods already adopted, and be more 
>>universal across media types (meaning, not just audio files).
>>
>>We could nay-say and do nothing, or we can get off our butts and do 
>>something.  Even if something doesn't work, I'd rather have tried to
make 
>>it work than not.
>>
>>Fail fast, succeed sooner.
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
>>>From: "Tom Sorensen" <tsorensen at gmail.com>
>>>Reply-To: id3v2 at id3.org
>>>To: id3v2 at id3.org
>>>Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Genre suggestion
>>>Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:20:40 -0400
>>>
>>>If you want a new Genre, just make one. There is no list of
>>>pre-defined genres for ID3v2. You'd then have to modify whatever
>>>player to not play any music that belonged in that genre (and see
>>>below for the issues with that).
>>>
>>>But that's not what you really want. You want a flag that a music
>>>player would have to check before playing (or, since you seem
>>>concerned about the title, before even displaying). Certainly
>>>possible; there are other similar flags in the ID3v2 spec currently.
>>>
>>>I'll go ahead and object to it as pointless though. Since:
>>>
>>>A) nobody implements anything like this in current players (software
>>>or hardware), and it would be 3-5 years before that would change (and
>>>that's being optimistic; more likely it would never be implemented.
>>>ID3v2.4 is 5 years old now and still has very low uptake),
>>>
>>>B) it would be completely trivial to bypass and/or disable anyway
>>>since you cannot prevent someone from changing the tag (or removing
it
>>>entirely).
>>>
>>>Tom Sorensen
>>>
>>>On 9/15/06, Tim Reinarts <tim_reinarts at soniqcast.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do you have any provisions in the latest spec for adding an "adult 
>>>>content"
>>>>genre category?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would propose that such a tag would allow parents to control the 
>>>>content
>>>>being used by their children.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Media player manufacturers can then implement a feature that allows 
>>>>parents
>>>>to prevent the player from accessing files with an Adult Content
genre.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It concerns me that some of the most popular content on many sites
like
>>>>MTV's URGE are songs with explicit titles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Tim Reinarts
>>>
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>>
>>
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