From jmartin92 at comcast.net Fri Jan 12 09:07:17 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:07:17 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location References: Message-ID: <002901c7366c$1fcb3f10$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> That's the way I've understood it as well. audio data ----------- ID3v2.4 ----------- APEv2 ----------- Lyrics3v2 ----------- ID3v1 So far I haven't encountered any software that writes appended ID3v2.4 tags. However, in the parsing software I've written, when searching for appended tags, I look for the 2.4 tag both before and after APEv2 tag. (Just because I expect some confusion in early implementations of this.) And I would still like to see it clarified in the spec that 2.4 tags at the beginning of a file cannot have a footer. I think the current wording is ambiguous. (To me it means that a prepended tag can have either a footer or padding but not both.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jud White" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Tag location Michal, That's my understanding (don't forget APE tags). I think the idea is that anything aware of ID3v2 tags at the end of the file should be able to handle its position among other tags, whereas something that only reads ID3v1 (+Lyrics3, or +APE) at the end of the file should not be disrupted. Jud ----- Original Message ----- From: Michal Vician [mailto:id3v2 at audiott.com] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:03:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Tag location I'm sorry, I just want to correct my question. The word "like" is missing in my previous post: ...So, if there are some other "tagging systems" appended to the file, would the ID3v2.4 tag be located_ like _this?:... Michal Vician wrote: > Hi, > > In ?5 (Tag location) of ID3v2.4 specification is written, that tag may > be located at the end of the file, but *"before tags from other > tagging systems".* > I just want to check if understand the word *"before"* correctly. So, > if there are some other "tagging systems" appended to the file, would > the ID3v2.4 tag be located this?: > > ------------------------------ > Audio data > ------------------------------ > *ID3v2.4 tag* > ------------------------------ > Lyrics3 > ------------------------------ > ID3v1 tag > ------------------------------ > > Many thanks, > Miso ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From benski at winamp.com Thu Jan 18 13:12:31 2007 From: benski at winamp.com (Ben Allison) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:12:31 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 In-Reply-To: <006a01c73b44$a7220cf0$d621880a@kendle.com> References: <4BFA4B9507E54BD8B8B620912848ED1B.MAI@cdtag.com> <006a01c73b44$a7220cf0$d621880a@kendle.com> Message-ID: <45AFE2BF.7010605@winamp.com> This would correspond to value/65536 (-12850/65536 = 0.196, -26471/65536 = 0.404) Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > > For what it's worth... > When I implemented the RVAD frame for my ID3 library, I found the > iTunes implemented it, so I used its implementation as a guide. (In > spite of iTunes' mangling of ID3v4.) The iTunes UI has a "Volume > Adjustment" slider which goes from -100% to +100% with tic marks at > every 20%. A -20% in iTunes results in the Right Volume and the Left > Volume fields being "Decrement 12850". -40% was "Decrement 26471". > At the time, I scratched my head a bit, wondering why the frame would > need these large values, but I didn't really delve into it too far. > > - Mitchell S. Honnert > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jud White" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:29 PM > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > > > Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please > help, anybody :) > >> From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: > The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) > for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. > > One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the > way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit > for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for > interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major > implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance > issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). > > What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each > bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB > (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of > representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent > 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of > exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a > curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does > the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm > sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) > If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. > > Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html > > My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as > n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in > 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. > > Jud > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Fri Jan 12 10:40:32 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:40:32 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location In-Reply-To: <002901c7366c$1fcb3f10$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> References: <002901c7366c$1fcb3f10$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Message-ID: <45A7D620.3090405@audiott.com> Thanks for quick reply. > So far I haven't encountered any software that writes appended ID3v2.4 tags. That's why I'm asking. Because I want to create one. I have already written one library which I use in my application "AudioTT". I found this library quite easy to modify and have some free time now. Therefore I decided to modify it, so it will be able to read and write all versions of ID3v2 and also make conversions between the versions. > However, in the parsing software I've written, when searching for appended > tags, I look for the 2.4 tag both before and after APEv2 tag. Sure. In the spec there is written that you should do it like that. 1. Look for a prepended tag using the pattern found in section 3.1. 2. If a SEEK frame was found, use its values to guide further searching. 3. Look for a tag footer, scanning from the back of the file. > And I would still like to see it clarified in the spec that 2.4 tags at the > beginning of a file cannot have a footer. I think the current wording is > ambiguous. (To me it means that a prepended tag can have either a footer or > padding but not both.) Wow. What? I understand it exactly like that ("tag can have either a footer or padding but not both"). My implementation currently allows to write a footer in prepended tag. So, your are saying that prepended tag MUST NOT have footer?? If yes, I would logically expect to have in specification something like this: 1. "Footer is intended for tag (or part of the tag) located at the end of the file. Prepended tag MUST NOT have footer, because footer brings no benefit to prepended tag." 2. "Padding is intended only for prepended tag. Appended tag MUST NOT have padding, because it would be useful, while there are no audio data under the tag." Jim wrote: > That's the way I've understood it as well. > > audio data > ----------- > ID3v2.4 > ----------- > APEv2 > ----------- > Lyrics3v2 > ----------- > ID3v1 > > So far I haven't encountered any software that writes appended ID3v2.4 tags. > However, in the parsing software I've written, when searching for appended > tags, I look for the 2.4 tag both before and after APEv2 tag. (Just because > I expect some confusion in early implementations of this.) > > And I would still like to see it clarified in the spec that 2.4 tags at the > beginning of a file cannot have a footer. I think the current wording is > ambiguous. (To me it means that a prepended tag can have either a footer or > padding but not both.) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jud White" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:36 AM > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Tag location > > > Michal, > That's my understanding (don't forget APE tags). I think the idea is that > anything aware of ID3v2 tags at the end of the file should be able to handle > its position among other tags, whereas something that only reads ID3v1 > (+Lyrics3, or +APE) at the end of the file should not be disrupted. > > Jud --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Thu Jan 18 13:50:47 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:50:47 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 References: <4BFA4B9507E54BD8B8B620912848ED1B.MAI@cdtag.com> <006a01c73b44$a7220cf0$d621880a@kendle.com> <45AFE2BF.7010605@winamp.com> Message-ID: <014e01c73b4a$b9713010$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> So then for the value to db conversion it would be: db = 20 * log10 ( 1.0 [+ or -] value/65536) where the + or - would be decided by the increment/decrement flag?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Allison" To: Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > This would correspond to value/65536 (-12850/65536 = 0.196, > -26471/65536 = 0.404) > > Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > > > > For what it's worth... > > When I implemented the RVAD frame for my ID3 library, I found the > > iTunes implemented it, so I used its implementation as a guide. (In > > spite of iTunes' mangling of ID3v4.) The iTunes UI has a "Volume > > Adjustment" slider which goes from -100% to +100% with tic marks at > > every 20%. A -20% in iTunes results in the Right Volume and the Left > > Volume fields being "Decrement 12850". -40% was "Decrement 26471". > > At the time, I scratched my head a bit, wondering why the frame would > > need these large values, but I didn't really delve into it too far. > > > > - Mitchell S. Honnert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jud White" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > > > > > > Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please > > help, anybody :) > > > >> From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: > > The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) > > for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. > > > > One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the > > way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit > > for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for > > interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major > > implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance > > issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). > > > > What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each > > bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB > > (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of > > representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent > > 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of > > exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a > > curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does > > the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm > > sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) > > If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. > > > > Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html > > > > My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as > > n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in > > 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. > > > > Jud > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From cody.dw.jones at gmail.com Thu Jan 25 13:25:14 2007 From: cody.dw.jones at gmail.com (Cody DW Jones) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:25:14 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] APIC clarification Message-ID: The 2.3.0 standard says "There may be several pictures attached to one file, each in their individual 'APIC' frame, but only one with the same content descriptor". Is the content descriptor the textual description field? In other words, no two pictures can be given the same description even if they're given different picture types? Regards, Cody --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From bmearns at coe.neu.edu Sun Jan 14 07:03:08 2007 From: bmearns at coe.neu.edu (Brian Mearns) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:03:08 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: References: <45A31EA6.6090209@northpb.com> Message-ID: <45AA462C.50703@coe.neu.edu> There's roughly 57 free icon editing programs available for download. Why don't you grab one, download which ever size is available on the site, and improvise the rest. Then you can submit it to the list, and maybe they can put it on the site. I'm guessing icon-development is not a number one priority for the working group right now. -Brian Dale Preston wrote: > There's still no good reply to the ID3V2 Icon problem. I'm sure you all > know that an icon is more than a bitmap; as the text about the ID3V2 icon > states, there are several sizes of icons in the id3v2.ico icon. Simply > right-clicking the image shown on a web page and saving does not get the > icon file; it gets the bitmap of one icon in the file. > > If anyone responsible for maintaining those web pages reads this list, > please consider adding a link directly to the icon file rather than a script > to display the file in a browser. > > If anyone has this icon file, I would sure appreciate it if you'd send it to > me. > > Dale Preston > > > Dale Preston wrote: >> On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is >> supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and >> even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded >> versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? > > All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the > .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. > > http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3 > v2.ico > > dan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Tue Jan 23 21:20:43 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:20:43 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Message-ID: <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> I used Firefox to get the icon, as suggested. http://cdtag.com/id3v2icon.zip Jim wrote: > Well, I could email you the icon file. But this would be the same file > that is downloaded from the link that Dan O'Neill originally posted. > (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico > ) > When I save the file from that link, I get an icon file that has 4 > different icons (32x32 16 color, 32x32 256 color, 48x48 16 color, > 48x48 256 color). From what you wrote it seems like you already tried > downloading this file and that isn't what you want so I'm guessing > that emailing it to you would be a waste of time? > --Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dale Preston > *To:* id3v2 at id3.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:28 PM > *Subject:* RE: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon > > Thank you. I still don?t have the icon. One response suggests that > there?s no time to develop one. I guess that person didn?t know > that the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just > download the icon but it doesn?t. The HTML in the page is not a > link to the file nor does it offer the address of the file. The > HTML calls a script that retrieves and renders the file. I have > viewed the source of the page and there is no way to get the icon > URL from that code. > > Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a > Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 > icon is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I > am sure the code for rendering the images, rather than simply > letting the web server and HTML render the images, is real nifty > but it is a mistake to use it for rendering icons. > > It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask > for one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. > One was able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the > icon with wget ? apparently a program but I am not familiar with > its use ? and stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have > been just as easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I > had pleaded. > > Thanks for trying, Manuel. > > Dale > > *From:* Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] > *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM > *To:* id3v2 at id3.org > *Subject:* Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon > > I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not > able to check my emails regularly. > If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file > and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you > might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to > download it then. > > -Manuel > > Dale Preston schrieb: > > Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the developer info > > page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not the whole > > icon file. > > > > If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to me? It > > would surely be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dale Preston > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] > > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM > > To: id3v2 at id3.org > > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon > > > > Dale Preston wrote: > > > > On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is > > supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and > > even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded > > versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? > > > > > > All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the > > .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. > > > > http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3 > > v2.ico > > > > dan > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Tue Jan 23 18:25:51 2007 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:25:51 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Diagrams In-Reply-To: <1554.158.195.96.62.1169570310.squirrel@webmail-4.domains.sk> References: <1554.158.195.96.62.1169570310.squirrel@webmail-4.domains.sk> Message-ID: <45B6C3AF.5080903@northpb.com> Michal Vician wrote: > Here are some more diagrams as I promised. > I hope somebody could give them to the id3.org site. > > PS: Please check if the diagrams are correct. Hi Michal, Before posting these to the wiki, could you please replace the photograph with a Creative Common's licensed or other public domain image? Thank you, Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Wed Jan 24 09:25:32 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:25:32 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question Message-ID: <7B6E4C93EFD3418F82BECEA15222CB8C.MAI@cdtag.com> TIPL, TLAN, TCON come to mind as Txxx frames you'd (probably) want to implement as something other than a TextFrame. I like the delegate idea, I've thought about implementing it for lazy creation. I haven't had a performance problem with creating all the types up front, but with delegates the dictionaries could be kept static. I'll have to try this out, thanks Andy. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Mearns [mailto:bmearns at coe.neu.edu] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:08:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question Thanks Jud and Andy, for the response. The factory method Andy described is more or less how I do it now, but with a dictionary like Jud described. The problem is that I want more general coverage than having to specifically register every frameID. For instance, as I mentioned, I have a class TextFrame that is the base class for implementing T*** frames like title and artist. Instead of having to register TextFrame for all the different T*** frame ids, I'd like it to be smart enough to figure that out, while still delegating to the dictionary for other frames. I guess there's no reason I can't just IF it in to check if the frame id starts with T, and handle it correctly. That just seems ugly. Ideally, I'd like to be able to register different classes or factories for general classes of frames (not OO classes, just general groupings like the T*** class of frames) as well as for specific frame IDs. But I suppose the T*** and non-T*** are the only real classes of frames there are, so it wouldn't be difficult to kluge it. But I still feel like it is a kluge. Thanks, -Brian Jud White wrote: > Brian, > I keep two dictionaries for each tag format, one for single occurrence > frames and one for multiple occurrence frames. The keys are always > FrameID's. The single occurrence dictionary's value is of type IFrame, > so without knowing the actual type of the specific frame you can call > the Read/Write methods, you just need to know the FrameID. The multiple > occurrence dictionary's value implements another interface with an Add > method that returns an IFrame, which can then have its Read/Write > methods called. I also use a type (UnknownFrame) to catch values not in > either dictionary and ensure they are written back. Adding another > supported frame just requires adding another key/value to the > appropriate dictionaries, no need to update the Read/Write methods of > the ID3 class. > > Brian Mearns wrote: >> I have a question for developers who use an OO paradigm for ID3 work: >> Assuming there are different classes to implement different frames, >> but not neccessarily one class per frame (for instance, a class to >> handle text-frames and another to handle everything else), what >> pattern do you use to decide which class will be called on while >> parsing a tag? I'd like to keep it as abstract as possible so that, >> for instance, if I add another class to handle another type of frame >> later, it will be easy and consistent to work it in. >> >> Is that at all clear? >> >> Thanks, >> -Brian >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From fiji at ayup.limey.net Wed Jan 3 19:40:23 2007 From: fiji at ayup.limey.net (Ben Bennett) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:40:23 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? In-Reply-To: <119461A3B1C2A847BABA421E6EB62CEA191699@EMAIL1.gracenote.gracenote.com> References: <019801c72f73$3902d560$2c02a8c0@yaupon> <4da424620701031228o5725c9d6v972e4e76562942c8@mail.gmail.com> <20070104004908.GA10191@ayup.limey.net> <119461A3B1C2A847BABA421E6EB62CEA191699@EMAIL1.gracenote.gracenote.com> Message-ID: <20070104034023.GA14398@ayup.limey.net> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:14:15PM -0800, Robert Manson wrote: > I think we should discourage any tags being written in 2.4 due to > the iTunes bug. Ugh. That is a shame. I like 2.4's changes to list handling in some of the text frames (making them consistently null separated vs. frame specific rules). I like the improved time handling stuff... making a timestamp format and consolidating the split time fields is nice. I like the sort order frames (but I am not sure if anything uses them) And I love the addition of UTF-8. Unfortunately you are probably correct though :-( As a note, you can work around the problem if you only have one large frame and you put it at the end of the file. That way iTunes wants to read the longer frame length, but there isn't enough left in the tag to read (or it reads the padding), but then renders the image correctly (since the jpeg/gif/png has its own size info and the trailing junk is ignored). The nasty case occurs if you have multiple frames > 128 bytes, or if the frame contents are not images (or another self-identifying type). Or if you are trying to read a tag iTunes wrote. -ben --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Fri Jan 12 11:12:26 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:12:26 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation Message-ID: <45A7DD9A.6040206@audiott.com> Hi again, I have a question concerning the unsynchronisation of ID3v2.4 tag. In the specification is stated the following: To indicate usage of the unsynchronisation, the unsynchronisation flag in the frame header should be set. This bit MUST be set if the frame was altered by the unsynchronisation and SHOULD NOT be set if unaltered. If all frames in the tag are unsynchronised the unsynchronisation flag in the tag header SHOULD be set. It MUST NOT be set if the tag has a frame which is not unsynchronised. OK, I understand. This means, that if whole tag is unsynchronized, the header "unsynchronization flag" is set and also "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are set. But, I am not sure if the situation can happen that header "unsynchronization flag" is set and "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are NOT SET. Is such situation valid in ID3v2.4? Regards, Miso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul_t100 at fastmail.fm Fri Jan 5 02:53:39 2007 From: paul_t100 at fastmail.fm (Paul Taylor) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:53:39 +0000 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag archive and a couple questions In-Reply-To: <001f01c73099$1a2943f0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> References: <459DE738.6030506@cdtag.com> <001f01c73099$1a2943f0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Message-ID: <459E2E33.2050609@fastmail.fm> Hi, this is great news, but I think it is worth pointing out these files only contain the tag they contain no audio so are not actually mp3s, to test against a library properly you need to append a simple mp3 to each of the files, this could be done after downloading the libray with a simple program. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From andrea_moro at email.it Sun Jan 14 04:18:11 2007 From: andrea_moro at email.it (Andrea Moro) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:18:11 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] frame TLAN Message-ID: <200701141318.11445.andrea_moro@email.it> TLAN The 'Language(s)' frame should contain the languages of the text or lyrics spoken or sung in the audio. The language is represented with three characters according to ISO-639-2. If more than one language is used in the text their language codes should follow according to their usage. i don't understand how i can put more than one language. it is simple a string of concatenated codes like engaarang ? -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Problemi di Liquidit?? Con Logos Finanziaria 30.000 ? in 24 ore a dipendenti e lavoratori autonomi con rimborsi fino a 120 mesi clicca qui * Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=2907&d=14-1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Sat Jan 13 14:37:08 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:37:08 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location - prepend/append combination In-Reply-To: <45A95CEF.1050409@audiott.com> References: <45A8E517.5090707@audiott.com> <00b001c7372b$5ee81d20$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45A95CEF.1050409@audiott.com> Message-ID: <45A95F14.2090706@audiott.com> > For now, I've attached only a small .txt, which compares all existed > ID3v2 versions. I've written it for the purpose of development my > library, so I can see all ID3v2 versions on one paper :) The > development is much easier then. Hope it will be helpful also for others. I have noticed, that if you open the file in WordPad it is a bit scattered. Therefore I have adjusted it a bit. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ID3v2 tag versions comparison 02.txt URL: -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Thu Jan 4 15:32:19 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 18:32:19 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? References: <01bf01c73056$30c16590$2c02a8c0@yaupon> Message-ID: Mike - Take a look at the foobar2000 forums if you want to read more about why the author went with 2.4 after starting out with 2.3. For the latest versions I think there is a "compatibility mode" which sort of writes 2.4 tags that can be read by a 2.3 reader. Don't quote me on that. I've only read about the option. I haven't tested it out myself. I haven't used id3lib much either. But perhaps 2.4 support can be encapsulated enough that very basic read support could be added and then later expanded upon to provide support for more of the 2.4 frames as well as writing support. I'd be willing to help out too. -Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Makuch" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? > > (foobar2000) only supports writing 2.4 tags > > I discovered this recently. In looking for ReplayGain solutions > I tested out fubar. It silently converted my 2.3 tags to 2.4 > (test data of course). Very poor behavior IMHO. > > I've been relying upon id3lib for 6 years and I'd hate to see > it die a slow death. I have no idea how big an effort it would be > but I'm one ole code slinger who'd give some time towards > adding 2.4 to it. Clearly it is needed. > > Mike > > > > Perhaps if 2.4 is adopted by more software then Apple will > > finally fix the > > problem in iTunes? (I know I'm probably deluding myself with > > such wishful > > thinking but I can hope.) Or perhaps some other work-around > > can be devised. > > But I still think letting Apple ruin the future of 2.4 just > > because they > > can't get it right in iTunes would be a tragedy. > > > > > > -Jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ben Bennett" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:14:15PM -0800, Robert Manson wrote: > > > > I think we should discourage any tags being written in 2.4 due to > > > > the iTunes bug. > > > > > > Ugh. That is a shame. > > > > > > I like 2.4's changes to list handling in some of the text frames > > > (making them consistently null separated vs. frame specific rules). > > > > > > I like the improved time handling stuff... making a timestamp format > > > and consolidating the split time fields is nice. > > > > > > I like the sort order frames (but I am not sure if anything uses > > > them) > > > > > > And I love the addition of UTF-8. > > > > > > Unfortunately you are probably correct though :-( > > > > > > As a note, you can work around the problem if you only have > > one large > > > frame and you put it at the end of the file. That way > > iTunes wants to > > > read the longer frame length, but there isn't enough left in the tag > > > to read (or it reads the padding), but then renders the image > > > correctly (since the jpeg/gif/png has its own size info and the > > > trailing junk is ignored). > > > > > > The nasty case occurs if you have multiple frames > 128 bytes, or if > > > the frame contents are not images (or another > > self-identifying type). > > > Or if you are trying to read a tag iTunes wrote. > > > > > > -ben > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From fiji at ayup.limey.net Sun Jan 14 09:59:37 2007 From: fiji at ayup.limey.net (Ben Bennett) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:59:37 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <001c01c737e9$a247f180$0400a8c0@dplaptop> References: <45A31EA6.6090209@northpb.com> <001c01c737e9$a247f180$0400a8c0@dplaptop> Message-ID: <20070114175937.GA18544@ayup.limey.net> As Dale noted before, the URL: http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico Is the full icon file. The "script to display the file" is just the framework that the wiki software adds. It is not picking one of the images to show. Your browser must be doing something funny to the file. If I do the following: > wget 'http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico' I get a 8422 byte file. > identify id3v2.ico id3v2.ico[0] ICO 32x32 32x32+0+0 DirectClass 8.2kb id3v2.ico[1] ICO 32x32 32x32+0+0 DirectClass 8.2kb id3v2.ico[2] ICO 48x48 48x48+0+0 DirectClass 8.2kb id3v2.ico[3] ICO 48x48 48x48+0+0 DirectClass 8.2kb Which shows that it contains all 4 expected icons. -ben On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 08:38:19AM -0600, Dale Preston wrote: > There's still no good reply to the ID3V2 Icon problem. I'm sure you all > know that an icon is more than a bitmap; as the text about the ID3V2 icon > states, there are several sizes of icons in the id3v2.ico icon. Simply > right-clicking the image shown on a web page and saving does not get the > icon file; it gets the bitmap of one icon in the file. > > If anyone responsible for maintaining those web pages reads this list, > please consider adding a link directly to the icon file rather than a script > to display the file in a browser. > > If anyone has this icon file, I would sure appreciate it if you'd send it to > me. > > Dale Preston > > > Dale Preston wrote: > > On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is > > supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and > > even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded > > versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? > > All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the > .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. > > http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3 > v2.ico > > dan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Wed Jan 24 18:09:50 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:09:50 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: Thank you. I am sorry you felt I was whining. I wasn't. I didn't pursue the thread or respond to comments like "the team doesn't have time to develop icons" when, in fact, the web page advertises the existence of an icon. Finally, after many days, someone else offered a suggestion. I took the opportunity to explain why I was unable to get the icon and to repeat my simple request to have it emailed. The link is still wrong. Granted, it may work with Mozilla, but 90% of ID3 tag users and developers have IE. Is it the specific intent of the ID3 team to exclude IE users? I don't think so. That means the failure of the icon to work as expected in IE is a bug. I just pointed it out. There was no whining. Thank you again for sending the icon. It is much appreciated. Dale Preston -----Original Message----- From: Brian Mearns [mailto:bmearns at coe.neu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:31 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon He's right it doesn't work (at least not in an obvious way) with IE, but Moz is free and vastly superior, and allows you to save the given url (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2. ico) as an icon file. (Win32 icon file with multiple sizes and color pallets, circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one...) Now I'm highly tempted not to do this because, frankly, you're whining. But I've attached the icon file so this damned thread can just stop. -Brian Jud White wrote: > I used Firefox to get the icon, as suggested. > http://cdtag.com/id3v2icon.zip > > Jim wrote: >> Well, I could email you the icon file. But this would be the same >> file that is downloaded from the link that Dan O'Neill originally posted. >> (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target >> =id3v2.ico >> > =id3v2.ico>) >> >> When I save the file from that link, I get an icon file that has 4 >> different icons (32x32 16 color, 32x32 256 color, 48x48 16 color, >> 48x48 256 color). From what you wrote it seems like you already tried >> downloading this file and that isn't what you want so I'm guessing >> that emailing it to you would be a waste of time? >> --Jim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Dale Preston >> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:28 PM >> *Subject:* RE: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> Thank you. I still don't have the icon. One response suggests that >> there's no time to develop one. I guess that person didn't know >> that the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just >> download the icon but it doesn't. The HTML in the page is not a >> link to the file nor does it offer the address of the file. The >> HTML calls a script that retrieves and renders the file. I have >> viewed the source of the page and there is no way to get the icon >> URL from that code. >> >> Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a >> Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 >> icon is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I >> am sure the code for rendering the images, rather than simply >> letting the web server and HTML render the images, is real nifty >> but it is a mistake to use it for rendering icons. >> >> It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask >> for one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. >> One was able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the >> icon with wget - apparently a program but I am not familiar with >> its use - and stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have >> been just as easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I >> had pleaded. >> >> Thanks for trying, Manuel. >> >> Dale >> >> *From:* Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] >> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM >> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >> *Subject:* Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not >> able to check my emails regularly. >> If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file >> and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you >> might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to >> download it then. >> >> -Manuel >> >> Dale Preston schrieb: >> >> Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the >> developer info >> >> page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not >> the whole >> >> icon file. >> >> >> If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to >> me? It >> >> would surely be appreciated. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Dale Preston >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM >> >> To: id3v2 at id3.org >> >> Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> >> Dale Preston wrote: >> >> >> On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place >> that is >> supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying >> correctly and >> even if it were it would not provide access to all of the >> embedded >> versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full >> ICO file? >> >> >> >> All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link >> to the >> .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. >> >> >> >> http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&tar >> get=id3 >> > rget=id3> >> >> >> v2.ico >> >> >> dan >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional > commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Fri Jan 12 08:36:27 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:36:27 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location Message-ID: Michal, That's my understanding (don't forget APE tags). I think the idea is that anything aware of ID3v2 tags at the end of the file should be able to handle its position among other tags, whereas something that only reads ID3v1 (+Lyrics3, or +APE) at the end of the file should not be disrupted. Jud ----- Original Message ----- From: Michal Vician [mailto:id3v2 at audiott.com] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:03:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Tag location I'm sorry, I just want to correct my question. The word "like" is missing in my previous post: ...So, if there are some other "tagging systems" appended to the file, would the ID3v2.4 tag be located_ like _this?:... Michal Vician wrote: > Hi, > > In ?5 (Tag location) of ID3v2.4 specification is written, that tag may > be located at the end of the file, but *"before tags from other > tagging systems".* > I just want to check if understand the word *"before"* correctly. So, > if there are some other "tagging systems" appended to the file, would > the ID3v2.4 tag be located this?: > > ------------------------------ > Audio data > ------------------------------ > *ID3v2.4 tag* > ------------------------------ > Lyrics3 > ------------------------------ > ID3v1 tag > ------------------------------ > > Many thanks, > Miso -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Wed Jan 24 22:16:24 2007 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:16:24 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Apache mime types fixed (was Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon) In-Reply-To: <45B8218E.2040207@coe.neu.edu> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> <45B8218E.2040207@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: <45B84B38.4090905@northpb.com> Hi Dale, Brian and others, Apache was delivering the .ico file with a text/plain mime type. I've added image/x-icon mime type to /etc/mime.types and the icon file now displays properly in IE. I'm a bit stumped as to why IE wants to save these files as .bmp (bitmap) files when you right click Save Picture As. Solutions are always welcome - drop me a note directly if you've got an answer. I'll also note that Brian has edited the page and placed the .ico file into a zip file and made that link available right below the .ico image. Regards, Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From wheeler at kde.org Thu Jan 4 21:57:56 2007 From: wheeler at kde.org (Scott Wheeler) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:57:56 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? In-Reply-To: <01bf01c73056$30c16590$2c02a8c0@yaupon> References: <01bf01c73056$30c16590$2c02a8c0@yaupon> Message-ID: <459DE8E4.8060508@kde.org> Michael Makuch wrote: > I've been relying upon id3lib for 6 years and I'd hate to see > it die a slow death. For all practical purposes that happened a long time ago. It's not seen a commit in years. > I have no idea how big an effort it would be but I'm one ole code slinger who'd give some time towards adding 2.4 to it. Clearly it is needed. While I'm sure Thijmen (last maintainer, I was sort of the one before him) would appreciate such, honestly the code's quite a mess and there are some design issues that you'd first have to get around. There are a number of better designed 2.4 implementations around in various languages. -Scott --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Thu Jan 18 12:31:14 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:31:14 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 References: <4BFA4B9507E54BD8B8B620912848ED1B.MAI@cdtag.com> <45AFCE5B.5030409@winamp.com> Message-ID: <00c301c73b3f$a45a7ac0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> This is slightly off topic but I was wondering if anyone knows of any apps that use the ID3v2.4 RVA2 frame for volume adjustment? (I think iTunes might but I don't have that here to check. And since their implementation of ID3v2.4 is broken anyway, I was hoping for something more compliant.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Allison" To: Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > We use ReplayGain, which standardizes the reference volume, hearing > threshold filtering and storage mechanism. For ID3v2.3+, it is stored > in TXXX frames with descriptions "replaygain_track_gain", > "replaygain_album_gain", "replaygain_track_peak" and > "replaygain_track_album". > > The old RVAD tag seems to be ill-defined and broken - the meaning of the > value stored seems to be up to the program that wrote it! I would be > surprised if you even ran across a file with this information. > > -Ben Allison > > Jud White wrote: > > Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please help, anybody :) > > > > >From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: > > The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. > > > > One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). > > > > What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. > > > > Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html > > > > My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. > > > > Jud > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Tue Jan 23 08:38:30 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:38:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: [ID3 Dev] Diagrams Message-ID: <1554.158.195.96.62.1169570310.squirrel@webmail-4.domains.sk> Here are some more diagrams as I promised. I hope somebody could give them to the id3.org site. PS: Please check if the diagrams are correct. Miso -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ID3v23.gif Type: image/gif Size: 17172 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ID3v24.gif Type: image/gif Size: 18308 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ID3v24-with-comments.gif Type: image/gif Size: 21694 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Sun Jan 14 06:29:42 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:29:42 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] frame TLAN In-Reply-To: <200701141318.11445.andrea_moro@email.it> References: <200701141318.11445.andrea_moro@email.it> Message-ID: I think that is correct; simply concatenate them. Because the language field is fixed length, it is easy to parse. Adding null terminations as some programs seem to do with all their ID3 strings is not always correct as I understand the specification. So, yes. Just concatenate the language strings. Dale Preston -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Moro [mailto:andrea_moro at email.it] Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 6:18 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: [ID3 Dev] frame TLAN TLAN The 'Language(s)' frame should contain the languages of the text or lyrics spoken or sung in the audio. The language is represented with three characters according to ISO-639-2. If more than one language is used in the text their language codes should follow according to their usage. i don't understand how i can put more than one language. it is simple a string of concatenated codes like engaarang ? -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Problemi di Liquidit`? Con Logos Finanziaria 30.000 in 24 ore a dipendenti e lavoratori autonomi con rimborsi fino a 120 mesi clicca qui * Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=2907&d=14-1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Sat Jan 13 05:56:39 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:56:39 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location - prepend/append combination Message-ID: <45A8E517.5090707@audiott.com> Hi, I have another question concerning the location of a v2.4 tag. As you know, there are three scenarios how one can write v2.4 tag: 1. Prepend the tag. 2. Prepend a tag with all vital information and add a second tag at the end of the file, before tags from other tagging systems. The first tag is required to have a SEEK frame. 3. Add a tag at the end of the file, before tags from other tagging systems. The 1. and the 3. scenario is clear for me. But I am not sure if I correctly understand the second scenario. I have attached my interpretation of how such tag should look like. Please correct me if I'm doing something wrong. Regards, Miso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: prepend_append_tag_combination.gif Type: image/gif Size: 24347 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Sun Jan 14 06:38:19 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:38:19 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <45A31EA6.6090209@northpb.com> References: <45A31EA6.6090209@northpb.com> Message-ID: There's still no good reply to the ID3V2 Icon problem. I'm sure you all know that an icon is more than a bitmap; as the text about the ID3V2 icon states, there are several sizes of icons in the id3v2.ico icon. Simply right-clicking the image shown on a web page and saving does not get the icon file; it gets the bitmap of one icon in the file. If anyone responsible for maintaining those web pages reads this list, please consider adding a link directly to the icon file rather than a script to display the file in a browser. If anyone has this icon file, I would sure appreciate it if you'd send it to me. Dale Preston Dale Preston wrote: > On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is > supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and > even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded > versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3 v2.ico dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From paul_t100 at fastmail.fm Fri Jan 5 03:41:57 2007 From: paul_t100 at fastmail.fm (Paul Taylor) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 11:41:57 +0000 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag archive and a couple questions In-Reply-To: <459E2E33.2050609@fastmail.fm> References: <459DE738.6030506@cdtag.com> <001f01c73099$1a2943f0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <459E2E33.2050609@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <459E3985.50901@fastmail.fm> For anyone familiar with Java Ive created such a program, its available from the jaudiotagger cvs repository (https://jaudiotagger.dev.java.net/), or the source code is below: import java.io.*; import java.util.Date; import java.text.DateFormat; public class MergeID3AndMP3Files { public static void main(final String[] args) { MergeID3AndMP3Files test = new MergeID3AndMP3Files(); if(args.length==0) { System.err.println("usage MergeID3AndMP3Files FromDir ToDir mp3File"); System.err.println(" You must enter the from dir,outputdir and the mp3file to append"); System.exit(1); } else if(args.length!=3) { System.err.println("usage MergeID3AndMP3Files FromDir ToDir mp3File"); System.err.println(" Only three parameters accepted"); System.exit(1); } File rootDir = new File(args[0]); if(!rootDir.isDirectory()) { System.err.println("usage MergeID3AndMP3Files FromDir ToDir mp3File"); System.err.println(" Directory "+args[0] +" could not be found"); System.exit(1); } File toDir = new File(args[1]); if(!rootDir.isDirectory()) { System.err.println("usage MergeID3AndMP3Files FromDir ToDir mp3File"); System.err.println(" Directory "+args[1] +" could not be found"); System.exit(1); } File mp3File = new File(args[2]); if(!mp3File.isFile()) { System.err.println("usage MergeID3AndMP3Files FromDir ToDir mp3File"); System.err.println(" Mp3File "+args[2] +" could not be found"); System.exit(1); } Date start = new Date(); System.out.println("Started to merge from:"+rootDir.getPath()+" at " + DateFormat.getTimeInstance().format(start)); test.scanSingleDir(rootDir,toDir,mp3File); Date finish = new Date(); System.out.println("Finished to merge from:"+rootDir.getPath() + DateFormat.getTimeInstance().format(finish)); System.out.println("Attempted to merge:"+ MergeID3AndMP3Files.count); System.out.println("Successful to merge:"+(MergeID3AndMP3Files.count - MergeID3AndMP3Files.failed)); System.out.println("Failed to merge:"+ MergeID3AndMP3Files.failed); } private static int count =0; private static int failed=0; /** * Recursive function to scan directory */ private void scanSingleDir(final File fromDir,final File toDir,final File mp3File) { final File[] audioFiles = fromDir.listFiles(new MergeID3AndMP3Files.MP3FileFilter()); if (audioFiles.length > 0) { for (int i = 0; i < audioFiles.length; i++) { MergeID3AndMP3Files.count++; try { copyAudioToTmp(toDir,audioFiles[i],mp3File); } catch (Throwable t) { System.err.println("Unable to merge record:"+ MergeID3AndMP3Files.count +":"+mp3File.getPath()); MergeID3AndMP3Files.failed++; t.printStackTrace(); } } } final File[] audioFileDirs = fromDir.listFiles(new MergeID3AndMP3Files.DirFilter()); if (audioFileDirs.length > 0) { for (int i = 0; i < audioFileDirs.length; i++) { scanSingleDir(audioFileDirs[i],new File(toDir,audioFileDirs[i].getName()),mp3File); } } } final class MP3FileFilter extends javax.swing.filechooser.FileFilter implements java.io.FileFilter { /** * allows Directories */ private final boolean allowDirectories; /** * Create a default MP3FileFilter. The allowDirectories field will * default to false. */ public MP3FileFilter() { this(false); } /** * Create an MP3FileFilter. If allowDirectories is true, then this filter * will accept directories as well as mp3 files. If it is false then * only mp3 files will be accepted. * * @param allowDirectories whether or not to accept directories */ private MP3FileFilter(final boolean allowDirectories) { this.allowDirectories = allowDirectories; } /** * Determines whether or not the file is an mp3 file. If the file is * a directory, whether or not is accepted depends upon the * allowDirectories flag passed to the constructor. * * @param file the file to test * @return true if this file or directory should be accepted */ public final boolean accept(final File file) { return ( ((file.getName()).toLowerCase().endsWith(".mp3")) || (file.isDirectory() && (this.allowDirectories == true)) ); } /** * Returns the Name of the Filter for use in the Chooser Dialog * * @return The Description of the Filter */ public final String getDescription() { return new String(".mp3 Files"); } } public final class DirFilter implements java.io.FileFilter { public DirFilter() { } /** * Determines whether or not the file is an mp3 file. If the file is * a directory, whether or not is accepted depends upon the * allowDirectories flag passed to the constructor. * * @param file the file to test * @return true if this file or directory should be accepted */ public final boolean accept(final File file) { return file.isDirectory(); } } public static File copyAudioToTmp(File toDir,File tagFile,File mp3File) { File outputFile = new File(toDir.getPath(), tagFile.getName()); boolean result = append(tagFile,mp3File,outputFile); return outputFile; } private static boolean append(File fromFile1,File fromFile2, File toFile) { try { FileInputStream in = new FileInputStream(fromFile1); FileInputStream in2 = new FileInputStream(fromFile2); toFile.getParentFile().mkdirs(); FileOutputStream out = new FileOutputStream(toFile); BufferedInputStream inBuffer = new BufferedInputStream (in); BufferedInputStream inBuffer2 = new BufferedInputStream (in2); BufferedOutputStream outBuffer = new BufferedOutputStream(out); int theByte; while ((theByte = inBuffer.read()) > -1) { outBuffer.write(theByte); } while ((theByte = inBuffer2.read()) > -1) { outBuffer.write(theByte); } outBuffer.close(); inBuffer.close(); inBuffer2.close(); out.close(); in.close(); in2.close(); // cleanupif files are not the same length if ((fromFile1.length() + fromFile2.length())!= toFile.length()) { toFile.delete(); return false; } return true; } catch (IOException e) { e.printStackTrace(); return false; } } } Paul Taylor wrote: > Hi, this is great news, but I think it is worth pointing out these > files only contain the tag they contain no audio so are not actually > mp3s, to test against a library properly you need > to append a simple mp3 to each of the files, this could be done after > downloading the libray with a simple program. > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Fri Jan 12 12:12:25 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:12:25 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location In-Reply-To: <008701c73681$4e56c920$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> References: <002901c7366c$1fcb3f10$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45A7D620.3090405@audiott.com> <008701c73681$4e56c920$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Message-ID: <45A7EBA9.4030900@audiott.com> Thank you for your opinion. Miso Jim wrote: > Sorry...I realized after I sent it that the explanation in my previous > message was rather long. > > A quick summary would be: I suggest that you do not write a footer as part > of a prepended 2.4 tag even if it doesn't have any padding. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Fri Jan 12 11:57:44 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:57:44 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation Message-ID: I would say no, it's not valid based on the following: a - Unsynchronisation Bit 7 in the 'ID3v2 flags' indicates whether or not unsynchronisation is applied on all frames (see section 6.1 for details); a set bit indicates usage. and, from the quote below: "This bit MUST be set if the frame was altered by the unsynchronisation" For writing I would use both if all frames were subject to unsynchronisation. My guess is that others readers are more likely to respect to unsync bit in the tag header than the frame header, so I would do all or nothing. Just a guess based on the likeliness that most 2.4 implementations stemmed from 2.3. For reading I would take an extra cautious approach when reading unsync'd tags since sometimes they're really unsync'd and sometimes they're not. For APIC this is easy - validate the image, if it's bad, try reading the frame normally. Jud ----- Original Message ----- From: Michal Vician [mailto:id3v2 at audiott.com] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:12:26 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation Hi again, I have a question concerning the unsynchronisation of ID3v2.4 tag. In the specification is stated the following: To indicate usage of the unsynchronisation, the unsynchronisation flag in the frame header should be set. This bit MUST be set if the frame was altered by the unsynchronisation and SHOULD NOT be set if unaltered. If all frames in the tag are unsynchronised the unsynchronisation flag in the tag header SHOULD be set. It MUST NOT be set if the tag has a frame which is not unsynchronised. OK, I understand. This means, that if whole tag is unsynchronized, the header "unsynchronization flag" is set and also "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are set. But, I am not sure if the situation can happen that header "unsynchronization flag" is set and "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are NOT SET. Is such situation valid in ID3v2.4? Regards, Miso -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mitch at honnert.com Sun Jan 14 13:36:54 2007 From: mitch at honnert.com (Mitchell S. Honnert) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:36:54 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] TKEY Message-ID: <001701c73824$21adb9c0$d621880a@kendle.com> I have a question about the implementation of the TKEY, the Initial Key, frame. Here's the spec for TKEY... The 'Initial key' frame contains the musical key in which the sound starts. It is represented as a string with a maximum length of three characters. The ground keys are represented with "A","B","C","D","E", "F" and "G" and halfkeys represented with "b" and "#". Minor is represented as "m". Example "Cbm". Off key is represented with an "o" only. I have no idea what a ground key or a halfkey is, so I really don't understand what the valid combinations are. For example, is "A" by itself a valid value or does there have to be a halfkey, like "A#"? Basically, I'm a big music fan, but I know next to nothing about this kind of stuff. What would be really nice is if someone could provide a RegEx expression to validate the TKEY text, but short of that, an explanation of the valid combinations of the above sections would be appreciated. Thanks, Mitchell S. Honnert www.UltraID3Lib.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mkm6 at makuch.org Wed Jan 3 12:10:32 2007 From: mkm6 at makuch.org (Michael Makuch) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:10:32 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? Message-ID: <019801c72f73$3902d560$2c02a8c0@yaupon> Am I missing something or is there not an id3lib that reads/writes 2.4? Is anyone working on it? I'd be willing to help, since I want it. Thanks, Mike --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Mon Jan 8 20:59:16 2007 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:59:16 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag archive and a couple questions In-Reply-To: <459DE738.6030506@cdtag.com> References: <459DE738.6030506@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <45A32124.40209@northpb.com> Hi Jud, You're an editor in the wiki so feel free to update the testing page and point to your test library. It's really great that you've compiled such a large corpus of test cases. dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mitch at honnert.com Sun Jan 14 09:18:27 2007 From: mitch at honnert.com (Mitchell S. Honnert) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 12:18:27 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] updates to existing ID3v2 standards? References: <20061226010356.HMCI6736.gx5.fuse.net@avoca> <45A320DD.2040509@northpb.com> Message-ID: <012401c73800$c639a310$7d020105@kendle.com> Hello Dan. Thanks for your reply. They're a bit late, but see below for responses... > I think the opening paragraph states that this should be allowed > http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0 > "The contents in this document may change for clarifications but never for > added or altered functionallity." Right, so we have explicit permission to update the v2.3.0 spec for clarity and we now have a Wiki in place to facilitate those changes. But I guess I'm looking for some specifics on how to proceed with a change. Should we discuss a proposed update on the e-mail list and then, when we have a general consensus, have one of the Wiki editors make the update? Or should the Wiki editors just make the change and leave the review to after-the-fact? (I've never participated in a Wiki before, so perhaps there are some features that would facilitate this.) Or something else? For example, I believe the results of Andrea Moro's recent question on the TLAN frame should be incorporated into the v2.3.0 spec. If the consensus is that the spec does indeed mean that the fixed length of the language code obviates the need for a delimiter, then this should be explicitly stated in the frames spec rather than merely implied. Including an example, like Andrea's "engaarang", wouldn't hurt either. I have the time and the motivation to make this change; I just want to make sure that it's done with the proper process. (BTW, the timing of Andrea's TLAN e-mail is very weird. Yesterday, I was looking at a ToDo in my library's code and I was planning my own e-mail to the list.) > What about putting forth 2.3.1 and explain the branch and differences? I am very much in favor of this. As a quick reminder, I personally am not suggesting that we make any significant changes in v2.3.1, just enough to recognize and incorporate some of the very popular, yet possibly noncompliant, implementations out there. For example, at least one implementation of the TCON frame uses a nullchar-delimited list of genre names. While this approach isn't mentioned in the spec, it's much more clear than the gobbledygook that's in there now. Plus, it doesn't break any existing implementations. It's as good an example as any of the kind of change that would go into v2.3.1. So, what's the next step? Do we open of the v2.3.0 spec for clarification-only updates for a while and then copy it over to a new v2.3.1 page? Or do we dive right in an create the v2.3.1 page? > I'd like to suggest that we agree to point people to the document that > best fits the current state of the art and then update the document, with > version numbers, behind that pointer. It sounds like you have a handle on how to point to the underlying documents. Just getting the v2.3.0 changes going and the new v2.3.1 spec created is my primary focus right now. Regards, Mitchell S. Honnert www.UltraID3Lib.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan O'Neill" To: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] updates to existing ID3v2 standards? > Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > >> I?d like to propose that we open up the existing ID3 specifications for >> updates in order to make clarifications or to make slight tweaks to >> existing sections. > > I think the opening paragraph states that this should be allowed > http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0 > > "The contents in this document may change for clarifications but never for > added or altered functionallity." > > > > >> 1) Clarifications of an existing specification which don?t change the >> spec > > I think this is covered, see above comment. > > >> 2) Slight alteration of an existing standard in light of de facto >> standards used by overwhelming majority of ID3 apps/libs > > Not sure this fits as it's a modification, not a clarification, of a > "standard" that's been out for a long time. > >> (I?m hoping that the use of the ID3.org Wiki, with its revision history, >> will alleviate some of the hesitation to make the kinds of changes I >> suggest.) > > What about putting forth 2.3.1 and explain the branch and differences? It > is always possible to change the language, ordering, and documentation > around the "standards" documents in order to provide appropriate > clarification. > > Please note that a lot of people link into id3.org so it will be important > to try and maintain external to internal link relationships (many are > currently mapped with apache rewrite rules for the transition from raw > html to a wiki). > > Version control of changes is always tricky. I'd like to suggest that we > agree to point people to the document that best fits the current state of > the art and then update the document, with version numbers, behind that > pointer. > > Thoughts? > > dan > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Sat Jan 6 08:40:37 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 10:40:37 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon Message-ID: On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full .ICO file? Thanks, Dale Preston -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmartin92 at comcast.net Thu Jan 18 09:54:57 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:54:57 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 References: <002d01c73836$ace77d70$6801a8c0@kendle.com> <45AEF265.7000205@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <000701c73b29$c9e03340$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Hi Jud. I'm not sure what the units are for the relative volume adjustment or how to interpret the value stored but I'm interested in this too. I'm going to try to look at how that frame is used by some other software and see if I can figure out what they use. Hopefully they will use the frame in the same way and we can consider it somewhat standard. I'll post a reply here about it. (And I'll also hope that someone else might know the answer and will reply in the meantime.) If you manage to figure it out some other way, please post the answer here. Thanks. --Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jud White" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:07 PM Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > In 2.3 RVAD, are there units associated with the volume increase? > > I assume it's directly related to the way 16 bit audio is stored - is > this correct? > > Is this value convertable to dB, for example, upgrading a 2.3 RVAD to > 2.4 RVA2? > > Thanks guys > Jud > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Thu Jan 25 18:41:31 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:41:31 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] APIC clarification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Whoops. That' the 32x32 pixel icon and the other icon files, types 1 and 2 respectively. Sorry for the confusion. Dale -----Original Message----- From: Dale Preston [mailto:dalepres at msn.com] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:40 PM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: RE: [ID3 Dev] APIC clarification You can have more than one of each picture type. The content descriptor is the text description. The only exception to that is the Other and the 32x32 pixel icon picture types, type 0 and 1, respectively. Those two types can only exist once in the tag. HTH, Dale -----Original Message----- From: news [mailto:news at sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Cody DW Jones Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:25 PM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: [ID3 Dev] APIC clarification The 2.3.0 standard says "There may be several pictures attached to one file, each in their individual 'APIC' frame, but only one with the same content descriptor". Is the content descriptor the textual description field? In other words, no two pictures can be given the same description even if they're given different picture types? Regards, Cody --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Thu Jan 4 00:36:44 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 03:36:44 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? References: <019801c72f73$3902d560$2c02a8c0@yaupon> <4da424620701031228o5725c9d6v972e4e76562942c8@mail.gmail.com> <20070104004908.GA10191@ayup.limey.net> <119461A3B1C2A847BABA421E6EB62CEA191699@EMAIL1.gracenote.gracenote.com> <20070104034023.GA14398@ayup.limey.net> Message-ID: <006101c72fdc$45b13360$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> I agree that it is a shame to lose 2.4 because iTunes messes it up. My favorite player (foobar2000) only supports writing 2.4 tags currently and that isn't likely to change in the future. Perhaps if 2.4 is adopted by more software then Apple will finally fix the problem in iTunes? (I know I'm probably deluding myself with such wishful thinking but I can hope.) Or perhaps some other work-around can be devised. But I still think letting Apple ruin the future of 2.4 just because they can't get it right in iTunes would be a tragedy. -Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Bennett" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? > On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:14:15PM -0800, Robert Manson wrote: > > I think we should discourage any tags being written in 2.4 due to > > the iTunes bug. > > Ugh. That is a shame. > > I like 2.4's changes to list handling in some of the text frames > (making them consistently null separated vs. frame specific rules). > > I like the improved time handling stuff... making a timestamp format > and consolidating the split time fields is nice. > > I like the sort order frames (but I am not sure if anything uses > them) > > And I love the addition of UTF-8. > > Unfortunately you are probably correct though :-( > > As a note, you can work around the problem if you only have one large > frame and you put it at the end of the file. That way iTunes wants to > read the longer frame length, but there isn't enough left in the tag > to read (or it reads the padding), but then renders the image > correctly (since the jpeg/gif/png has its own size info and the > trailing junk is ignored). > > The nasty case occurs if you have multiple frames > 128 bytes, or if > the frame contents are not images (or another self-identifying type). > Or if you are trying to read a tag iTunes wrote. > > -ben > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Mon Jan 29 18:37:03 2007 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:37:03 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] New mail address ... In-Reply-To: <020401c743f6$24f7bda0$6401a8c0@useronewin2klt> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> <020401c743f6$24f7bda0$6401a8c0@useronewin2klt> Message-ID: <45BEAF4F.2040202@northpb.com> madhtr wrote: > Will the Godz please change my email address to: > > Brian at schif.org > > Thanx :) In order to maintain the integrity of the list could you simply send a mail message from that account to id3v2-subscribe at id3.org and then reply to the confirmation? That way you've confirmed the subscription rather than me simply adding people to the list. "Ray... If someone asks you if you're a god, say YES!" -- Ghost Busters Well, I'm not and I'm happy to help if you can't get the subscription stuff to work properly. Let me know. Sincerely, Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From andrew.kernahan at googlemail.com Wed Jan 24 04:15:21 2007 From: andrew.kernahan at googlemail.com (Andy Kernahan) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:15:21 +0000 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question In-Reply-To: <45B74B8C.2090904@coe.neu.edu> References: <45B74B8C.2090904@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: <1b3bacd80701240415m12698c06wcd4bd703d8932115@mail.gmail.com> Hi Brian, I use a factory which creates frames based on the frame ID. Users can register a new frame type by specifying the frame ID and a delegate. The delegate is responsible for returning an instance of a ID3Frame derived type. Derived types must override the Parse method. Unknown frames are parsed by an ID3BinaryFrame which simply reads the frame data into an array. Hope this helps, Andy. On 24/01/07, Brian Mearns wrote: > > I have a question for developers who use an OO paradigm for ID3 work: > Assuming there are different classes to implement different frames, but > not neccessarily one class per frame (for instance, a class to handle > text-frames and another to handle everything else), what pattern do you > use to decide which class will be called on while parsing a tag? I'd > like to keep it as abstract as possible so that, for instance, if I add > another class to handle another type of frame later, it will be easy and > consistent to work it in. > > Is that at all clear? > > Thanks, > -Brian > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > -- Andy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tsorensen at gmail.com Wed Jan 3 12:28:01 2007 From: tsorensen at gmail.com (Tom Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:28:01 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? In-Reply-To: <019801c72f73$3902d560$2c02a8c0@yaupon> References: <019801c72f73$3902d560$2c02a8c0@yaupon> Message-ID: <4da424620701031228o5725c9d6v972e4e76562942c8@mail.gmail.com> On 1/3/07, Michael Makuch wrote: > Am I missing something or is there not an id3lib that reads/writes 2.4? There is not. There are several other C or C++ libs that do so (e.g. -- TagLib). I gave up looking for one that can read and write everything a couple years ago -- most will read any version, but only write their preferred one. > Is anyone working on it? I'd be willing to help, since I want it. Updating id3lib to support 2.4 would be non-trivial; you're better off using one of the other projects. That said, 2.4 has pretty much been a failure in the marketplace. There's been occasional discussion about this on the ID3 mailing list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Fri Jan 12 11:36:02 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:36:02 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location References: <002901c7366c$1fcb3f10$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45A7D620.3090405@audiott.com> Message-ID: <007d01c73680$e9c760a0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Michal Vician id3v2 at audiott.com wrote: > > And I would still like to see it clarified in the spec that 2.4 tags at the > > beginning of a file cannot have a footer. I think the current wording is > > ambiguous. (To me it means that a prepended tag can have either a footer or > > padding but not both.) > > Wow. What? I understand it exactly like that ("tag can have either a > footer or padding but not both"). My implementation currently allows to > write a footer in prepended tag. > So, your are saying that prepended tag MUST NOT have footer?? If yes, I > would logically expect to have in specification something like this: > 1. "Footer is intended for tag (or part of the tag) located at the end > of the file. Prepended tag MUST NOT have footer, because footer brings > no benefit to prepended tag." > 2. "Padding is intended only for prepended tag. Appended tag MUST NOT > have padding, because it would be useful, while there are no audio data > under the tag." > I had asked for some clarification about this before. It started because I wanted to know the reason why the size written into the header/footer does not include the size of the footer if it is present. There are some pieces of software that only read the ID3v2 header (at the beginning of the file) to calculate the size and know how many bytes to skip to get to the "real" beginning of the file (the audio data). All of these old pieces of software would be broken if they encountered a 2.4 prepended tag that had a footer because instead of skipping to the beginning of the audio data they would end up skipping to the beginning of the footer. (Software that doesn't understand 2.4 tags would not know to check for the footer flag.) It was mentioned that the size of the footer is not included because a parser might then try to interpret the footer as a frame, but I think this would rarely happen because a parser that only understand 2.3 or earlier should not be trying to parse 2.4 frames and if it did it would already be broken because frame sizes in 2.4 frames are syncsafe integers while 2.3 and earlier are not. So to me it seems like the size should either include the size of the footer or a footer should not be added to prepended tags to maintain compatibility. The only things that are clear from the spec is that an appended tag CANNOT have padding. (In section 3.3 about padding it says that there must not be any padding when a footer is present and in section 3.4 it says that an appended tag must have a footer...so put the two together and you see that appended tags cannot have padding.) But it isn't specified anywhere that a prepended tag cannot have a footer as long as it doesn't have padding. Hopefully this can be cleared up before more software starts adding support for 2.4 tags to avoid incompatible implementations. (Even if this issue isn't definitely settled, perhaps someone could edit the 2.4 spec in the WIKI to add something like "It is suggested that prepended tags not have a footer." or something similar.) --Jim --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From bmearns at coe.neu.edu Thu Jan 25 03:24:27 2007 From: bmearns at coe.neu.edu (Brian Mearns) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:24:27 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Apache mime types fixed (was Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon) In-Reply-To: <45B84B38.4090905@northpb.com> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> <45B8218E.2040207@coe.neu.edu> <45B84B38.4090905@northpb.com> Message-ID: <45B8936B.3070000@coe.neu.edu> Well I'll be damned. I stand corrected that the bug could only be fixed in IE. Though it is still an IE bug, Dan has come up with a way to fix it. I don't think the zip link I added is necessary any longer, right? -Brian Dan O'Neill wrote: > Hi Dale, Brian and others, > > Apache was delivering the .ico file with a text/plain mime type. I've > added image/x-icon mime type to /etc/mime.types and the icon file now > displays properly in IE. > > I'm a bit stumped as to why IE wants to save these files as .bmp > (bitmap) files when you right click Save Picture As. Solutions are > always welcome - drop me a note directly if you've got an answer. > > I'll also note that Brian has edited the page and placed the .ico file > into a zip file and made that link available right below the .ico image. > > Regards, > > Dan > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mitch at honnert.com Thu Jan 18 13:07:24 2007 From: mitch at honnert.com (Mitchell S. Honnert) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:07:24 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 References: <4BFA4B9507E54BD8B8B620912848ED1B.MAI@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <006a01c73b44$a7220cf0$d621880a@kendle.com> For what it's worth... When I implemented the RVAD frame for my ID3 library, I found the iTunes implemented it, so I used its implementation as a guide. (In spite of iTunes' mangling of ID3v4.) The iTunes UI has a "Volume Adjustment" slider which goes from -100% to +100% with tic marks at every 20%. A -20% in iTunes results in the Right Volume and the Left Volume fields being "Decrement 12850". -40% was "Decrement 26471". At the time, I scratched my head a bit, wondering why the frame would need these large values, but I didn't really delve into it too far. - Mitchell S. Honnert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jud White" To: Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please help, anybody :) From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. Jud -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Wed Jan 24 18:30:49 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:30:49 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: I thought the circles and arrows and paragraph on the back of each one version of the icon had 27 pictures in it. Dale -----Original Message----- From: Brian Mearns [mailto:bmearns at coe.neu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:31 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon He's right it doesn't work (at least not in an obvious way) with IE, but Moz is free and vastly superior, and allows you to save the given url (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2. ico) as an icon file. (Win32 icon file with multiple sizes and color pallets, circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one...) Now I'm highly tempted not to do this because, frankly, you're whining. But I've attached the icon file so this damned thread can just stop. -Brian Jud White wrote: > I used Firefox to get the icon, as suggested. > http://cdtag.com/id3v2icon.zip > > Jim wrote: >> Well, I could email you the icon file. But this would be the same >> file that is downloaded from the link that Dan O'Neill originally posted. >> (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target >> =id3v2.ico >> > =id3v2.ico>) >> >> When I save the file from that link, I get an icon file that has 4 >> different icons (32x32 16 color, 32x32 256 color, 48x48 16 color, >> 48x48 256 color). From what you wrote it seems like you already tried >> downloading this file and that isn't what you want so I'm guessing >> that emailing it to you would be a waste of time? >> --Jim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Dale Preston >> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:28 PM >> *Subject:* RE: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> Thank you. I still don't have the icon. One response suggests that >> there's no time to develop one. I guess that person didn't know >> that the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just >> download the icon but it doesn't. The HTML in the page is not a >> link to the file nor does it offer the address of the file. The >> HTML calls a script that retrieves and renders the file. I have >> viewed the source of the page and there is no way to get the icon >> URL from that code. >> >> Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a >> Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 >> icon is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I >> am sure the code for rendering the images, rather than simply >> letting the web server and HTML render the images, is real nifty >> but it is a mistake to use it for rendering icons. >> >> It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask >> for one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. >> One was able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the >> icon with wget - apparently a program but I am not familiar with >> its use - and stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have >> been just as easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I >> had pleaded. >> >> Thanks for trying, Manuel. >> >> Dale >> >> *From:* Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] >> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM >> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >> *Subject:* Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not >> able to check my emails regularly. >> If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file >> and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you >> might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to >> download it then. >> >> -Manuel >> >> Dale Preston schrieb: >> >> Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the >> developer info >> >> page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not >> the whole >> >> icon file. >> >> >> If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to >> me? It >> >> would surely be appreciated. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Dale Preston >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM >> >> To: id3v2 at id3.org >> >> Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> >> Dale Preston wrote: >> >> >> On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place >> that is >> supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying >> correctly and >> even if it were it would not provide access to all of the >> embedded >> versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full >> ICO file? >> >> >> >> All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link >> to the >> .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. >> >> >> >> http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&tar >> get=id3 >> > rget=id3> >> >> >> v2.ico >> >> >> dan >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional > commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Fri Jan 12 07:58:55 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:58:55 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location Message-ID: <45A7B03F.1040006@audiott.com> Hi, In ?5 (Tag location) of ID3v2.4 specification is written, that tag may be located at the end of the file, but *"before tags from other tagging systems".* I just want to check if understand the word *"before"* correctly. So, if there are some other "tagging systems" appended to the file, would the ID3v2.4 tag be located this?: ------------------------------ Audio data ------------------------------ *ID3v2.4 tag* ------------------------------ Lyrics3 ------------------------------ ID3v1 tag ------------------------------ Many thanks, Miso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fiji at ayup.limey.net Wed Jan 3 16:49:08 2007 From: fiji at ayup.limey.net (Ben Bennett) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 19:49:08 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? In-Reply-To: <4da424620701031228o5725c9d6v972e4e76562942c8@mail.gmail.com> References: <019801c72f73$3902d560$2c02a8c0@yaupon> <4da424620701031228o5725c9d6v972e4e76562942c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070104004908.GA10191@ayup.limey.net> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 03:28:01PM -0500, Tom Sorensen wrote: > Updating id3lib to support 2.4 would be non-trivial; you're better off > using one of the other projects. That said, 2.4 has pretty much been a > failure in the marketplace. There's been occasional discussion about > this on the ID3 mailing list. I am not sure if I can call 2.4 a failure. Most things read 2.4. iTunes writes 2.3 or 2.4 [1] and that is a huge chunk of the market. Amarok (based on taglib) writes only 2.4 (but reads 2.3). However, as you noted a lot of things read 2.3 and 2.4 but only write 2.3. But market-share wise... I dunno, but 2.4 is certainly not a failure. If you want to be safe? Tag things 2.3. Everything reads at least the basic frames. -ben [1] Note that iTunes messes up the frame size and does not unsynchonize it, so large 2.4 frames are have an incorrect length if you parse them according to the 2.4 spec. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Fri Jan 12 11:38:53 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:38:53 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location References: <002901c7366c$1fcb3f10$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45A7D620.3090405@audiott.com> Message-ID: <008701c73681$4e56c920$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Sorry...I realized after I sent it that the explanation in my previous message was rather long. A quick summary would be: I suggest that you do not write a footer as part of a prepended 2.4 tag even if it doesn't have any padding. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal Vician" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Tag location > Thanks for quick reply. > > > So far I haven't encountered any software that writes appended > ID3v2.4 tags. > That's why I'm asking. Because I want to create one. I have already > written one library which I use in my application "AudioTT". I found > this library quite easy to modify and have some free time now. Therefore > I decided to modify it, so it will be able to read and write all > versions of ID3v2 and also make conversions between the versions. > > > However, in the parsing software I've written, when searching for appended > > tags, I look for the 2.4 tag both before and after APEv2 tag. > Sure. In the spec there is written that you should do it like that. > > 1. Look for a prepended tag using the pattern found in section 3.1. > 2. If a SEEK frame was found, use its values to guide further > searching. > 3. Look for a tag footer, scanning from the back of the file. > > > And I would still like to see it clarified in the spec that 2.4 tags at the > > beginning of a file cannot have a footer. I think the current wording is > > ambiguous. (To me it means that a prepended tag can have either a footer or > > padding but not both.) > > Wow. What? I understand it exactly like that ("tag can have either a > footer or padding but not both"). My implementation currently allows to > write a footer in prepended tag. > So, your are saying that prepended tag MUST NOT have footer?? If yes, I > would logically expect to have in specification something like this: > 1. "Footer is intended for tag (or part of the tag) located at the end > of the file. Prepended tag MUST NOT have footer, because footer brings > no benefit to prepended tag." > 2. "Padding is intended only for prepended tag. Appended tag MUST NOT > have padding, because it would be useful, while there are no audio data > under the tag." > > > Jim wrote: > > That's the way I've understood it as well. > > > > audio data > > ----------- > > ID3v2.4 > > ----------- > > APEv2 > > ----------- > > Lyrics3v2 > > ----------- > > ID3v1 > > > > So far I haven't encountered any software that writes appended ID3v2.4 tags. > > However, in the parsing software I've written, when searching for appended > > tags, I look for the 2.4 tag both before and after APEv2 tag. (Just because > > I expect some confusion in early implementations of this.) > > > > And I would still like to see it clarified in the spec that 2.4 tags at the > > beginning of a file cannot have a footer. I think the current wording is > > ambiguous. (To me it means that a prepended tag can have either a footer or > > padding but not both.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jud White" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:36 AM > > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Tag location > > > > > > Michal, > > That's my understanding (don't forget APE tags). I think the idea is that > > anything aware of ID3v2 tags at the end of the file should be able to handle > > its position among other tags, whereas something that only reads ID3v1 > > (+Lyrics3, or +APE) at the end of the file should not be disrupted. > > > > Jud > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Thu Jan 25 19:09:50 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:09:50 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Apache mime types fixed (was Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon) In-Reply-To: <45B8936B.3070000@coe.neu.edu> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> <45B8218E.2040207@coe.neu.edu> <45B84B38.4090905@northpb.com> <45B8936B.3070000@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: Brian, Thanks for adding the zip file - and I think it is still necessary. While Dan's fix makes the icon visible, IE still treats it as a bitmap and you can't save it as an icon file. Between the two fixes, it should work great. Thanks again for your help, Dale -----Original Message----- From: Brian Mearns [mailto:bmearns at coe.neu.edu] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:24 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Apache mime types fixed (was Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon) Well I'll be damned. I stand corrected that the bug could only be fixed in IE. Though it is still an IE bug, Dan has come up with a way to fix it. I don't think the zip link I added is necessary any longer, right? -Brian Dan O'Neill wrote: > Hi Dale, Brian and others, > > Apache was delivering the .ico file with a text/plain mime type. I've > added image/x-icon mime type to /etc/mime.types and the icon file now > displays properly in IE. > > I'm a bit stumped as to why IE wants to save these files as .bmp > (bitmap) files when you right click Save Picture As. Solutions are > always welcome - drop me a note directly if you've got an answer. > > I'll also note that Brian has edited the page and placed the .ico file > into a zip file and made that link available right below the .ico image. > > Regards, > > Dan > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Wed Jan 10 20:42:12 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:42:12 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <45A31EA6.6090209@northpb.com> Message-ID: Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the developer info page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not the whole icon file. If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to me? It would surely be appreciated. Thanks, Dale Preston -----Original Message----- From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon Dale Preston wrote: > On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is > supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and > even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded > versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3 v2.ico dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Fri Jan 12 12:48:55 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:48:55 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45A7F437.3010002@audiott.com> So you say that there are only three situations as far as we talk about ID3v2.4 ? : 1. no frame was affected by unsynchronisation (all sync bits are _not set_) 2. only few frames were affected (only bits of affected frames are _set_, header sync bit is _not set_) 3. all frames were affected (header sync bit and sync bits of all frames are _set_) Jud White wrote: > I would say no, it's not valid based on the following: > > a - Unsynchronisation > > Bit 7 in the 'ID3v2 flags' indicates whether or not > unsynchronisation is applied on all frames (see section 6.1 for > details); a set bit indicates usage. > > and, from the quote below: > > "This bit MUST be set if the frame was altered by the unsynchronisation" > > For writing I would use both if all frames were subject to unsynchronisation. My guess is that others readers are more likely to respect to unsync bit in the tag header than the frame header, so I would do all or nothing. Just a guess based on the likeliness that most 2.4 implementations stemmed from 2.3. > > For reading I would take an extra cautious approach when reading unsync'd tags since sometimes they're really unsync'd and sometimes they're not. For APIC this is easy - validate the image, if it's bad, try reading the frame normally. > > Jud > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michal Vician [mailto:id3v2 at audiott.com] > To: id3v2 at id3.org > Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:12:26 +0100 > Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation > > Hi again, > > I have a question concerning the unsynchronisation of ID3v2.4 tag. > In the specification is stated the following: > > To indicate usage of the unsynchronisation, the unsynchronisation > flag in the frame header should be set. This bit MUST be set if the > frame was altered by the unsynchronisation and SHOULD NOT be set if > unaltered. If all frames in the tag are unsynchronised the > unsynchronisation flag in the tag header SHOULD be set. It MUST NOT > be set if the tag has a frame which is not unsynchronised. > > OK, I understand. This means, that if whole tag is unsynchronized, the > header "unsynchronization flag" is set and also "unsynchronization > flags" of all frames are set. But, I am not sure if the situation can > happen that header "unsynchronization flag" is set and > "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are NOT SET. Is such situation > valid in ID3v2.4? > > Regards, > Miso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de Sun Jan 21 23:53:57 2007 From: teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de (Manuel Teuber) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:53:57 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not able to check my emails regularly. If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to download it then. -Manuel Dale Preston schrieb: > Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the developer info > page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not the whole > icon file. > > If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to me? It > would surely be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Dale Preston > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM > To: id3v2 at id3.org > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon > > Dale Preston wrote: > >> On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is >> supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and >> even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded >> versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? >> > > All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the > .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. > > http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3 > v2.ico > > dan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwhite at cdtag.com Thu Jan 18 11:29:22 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:29:22 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 Message-ID: <4BFA4B9507E54BD8B8B620912848ED1B.MAI@cdtag.com> Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please help, anybody :) From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. Jud -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mkm6 at makuch.org Thu Jan 4 15:15:14 2007 From: mkm6 at makuch.org (Michael Makuch) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:15:14 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? In-Reply-To: <006101c72fdc$45b13360$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Message-ID: <01bf01c73056$30c16590$2c02a8c0@yaupon> > (foobar2000) only supports writing 2.4 tags I discovered this recently. In looking for ReplayGain solutions I tested out fubar. It silently converted my 2.3 tags to 2.4 (test data of course). Very poor behavior IMHO. I've been relying upon id3lib for 6 years and I'd hate to see it die a slow death. I have no idea how big an effort it would be but I'm one ole code slinger who'd give some time towards adding 2.4 to it. Clearly it is needed. Mike > Perhaps if 2.4 is adopted by more software then Apple will > finally fix the > problem in iTunes? (I know I'm probably deluding myself with > such wishful > thinking but I can hope.) Or perhaps some other work-around > can be devised. > But I still think letting Apple ruin the future of 2.4 just > because they > can't get it right in iTunes would be a tragedy. > > -Jim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Bennett" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? > > > > On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:14:15PM -0800, Robert Manson wrote: > > > I think we should discourage any tags being written in 2.4 due to > > > the iTunes bug. > > > > Ugh. That is a shame. > > > > I like 2.4's changes to list handling in some of the text frames > > (making them consistently null separated vs. frame specific rules). > > > > I like the improved time handling stuff... making a timestamp format > > and consolidating the split time fields is nice. > > > > I like the sort order frames (but I am not sure if anything uses > > them) > > > > And I love the addition of UTF-8. > > > > Unfortunately you are probably correct though :-( > > > > As a note, you can work around the problem if you only have > one large > > frame and you put it at the end of the file. That way > iTunes wants to > > read the longer frame length, but there isn't enough left in the tag > > to read (or it reads the padding), but then renders the image > > correctly (since the jpeg/gif/png has its own size info and the > > trailing junk is ignored). > > > > The nasty case occurs if you have multiple frames > 128 bytes, or if > > the frame contents are not images (or another > self-identifying type). > > Or if you are trying to read a tag iTunes wrote. > > > > -ben > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From rmanson at gracenote.com Wed Jan 3 17:14:15 2007 From: rmanson at gracenote.com (Robert Manson) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:14:15 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? References: <019801c72f73$3902d560$2c02a8c0@yaupon> <4da424620701031228o5725c9d6v972e4e76562942c8@mail.gmail.com> <20070104004908.GA10191@ayup.limey.net> Message-ID: <119461A3B1C2A847BABA421E6EB62CEA191699@EMAIL1.gracenote.gracenote.com> I think we should discourage any tags being written in 2.4 due to the iTunes bug. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Ben Bennett [mailto:fiji at ayup.limey.net] Sent: Wed 1/3/2007 4:49 PM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] id2v2.4??? On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 03:28:01PM -0500, Tom Sorensen wrote: > Updating id3lib to support 2.4 would be non-trivial; you're better off > using one of the other projects. That said, 2.4 has pretty much been a > failure in the marketplace. There's been occasional discussion about > this on the ID3 mailing list. I am not sure if I can call 2.4 a failure. Most things read 2.4. iTunes writes 2.3 or 2.4 [1] and that is a huge chunk of the market. Amarok (based on taglib) writes only 2.4 (but reads 2.3). However, as you noted a lot of things read 2.3 and 2.4 but only write 2.3. But market-share wise... I dunno, but 2.4 is certainly not a failure. If you want to be safe? Tag things 2.3. Everything reads at least the basic frames. -ben [1] Note that iTunes messes up the frame size and does not unsynchonize it, so large 2.4 frames are have an incorrect length if you parse them according to the 2.4 spec. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3217 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From bmearns at coe.neu.edu Wed Jan 24 09:08:48 2007 From: bmearns at coe.neu.edu (Brian Mearns) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:08:48 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question In-Reply-To: <45B76BD9.5090209@cdtag.com> References: <45B74B8C.2090904@coe.neu.edu> <45B76BD9.5090209@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <45B792A0.5040107@coe.neu.edu> Thanks Jud and Andy, for the response. The factory method Andy described is more or less how I do it now, but with a dictionary like Jud described. The problem is that I want more general coverage than having to specifically register every frameID. For instance, as I mentioned, I have a class TextFrame that is the base class for implementing T*** frames like title and artist. Instead of having to register TextFrame for all the different T*** frame ids, I'd like it to be smart enough to figure that out, while still delegating to the dictionary for other frames. I guess there's no reason I can't just IF it in to check if the frame id starts with T, and handle it correctly. That just seems ugly. Ideally, I'd like to be able to register different classes or factories for general classes of frames (not OO classes, just general groupings like the T*** class of frames) as well as for specific frame IDs. But I suppose the T*** and non-T*** are the only real classes of frames there are, so it wouldn't be difficult to kluge it. But I still feel like it is a kluge. Thanks, -Brian Jud White wrote: > Brian, > I keep two dictionaries for each tag format, one for single occurrence > frames and one for multiple occurrence frames. The keys are always > FrameID's. The single occurrence dictionary's value is of type IFrame, > so without knowing the actual type of the specific frame you can call > the Read/Write methods, you just need to know the FrameID. The multiple > occurrence dictionary's value implements another interface with an Add > method that returns an IFrame, which can then have its Read/Write > methods called. I also use a type (UnknownFrame) to catch values not in > either dictionary and ensure they are written back. Adding another > supported frame just requires adding another key/value to the > appropriate dictionaries, no need to update the Read/Write methods of > the ID3 class. > > Brian Mearns wrote: >> I have a question for developers who use an OO paradigm for ID3 work: >> Assuming there are different classes to implement different frames, >> but not neccessarily one class per frame (for instance, a class to >> handle text-frames and another to handle everything else), what >> pattern do you use to decide which class will be called on while >> parsing a tag? I'd like to keep it as abstract as possible so that, >> for instance, if I add another class to handle another type of frame >> later, it will be easy and consistent to work it in. >> >> Is that at all clear? >> >> Thanks, >> -Brian >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Mon Jan 8 20:48:38 2007 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:48:38 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45A31EA6.6090209@northpb.com> Dale Preston wrote: > On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there?s a place that is > supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn?t displaying correctly and > even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded > versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Wed Jan 17 15:32:41 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:32:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [ID3 Dev] Re: "numeric strings" References: <002d01c73836$ace77d70$6801a8c0@kendle.com> Message-ID: Mitch, I'm with you on this. There's a very vocal group of people that want to use 19XX, etc in the TYER frame as well as text in TRCK. On one hand it seems, in reality, harmless to allow it because it's a "text field", other software allows/supports it, and at worst software that doesn't support it ignores/converts it. On the other hand there's the spec which says "numeric", we certainly wouldn't consider allowing non-numerical data in the TDAT frame, and TDOR/TDRC etc in 2.4 (the replacement of TYER) has a well defined timestamp format. But does 199X-01-01 make sense? To some it does. For example, a live shows with a partially known date. But I think if the answer is 'this makes sense' the spec should reflect this. If it doesn't make sense, what's the preferred solution? TDOR allows you the leave off the month if it's unknown, why not leave off the year if it's unknown (but the decade is known)? Conforming to just "leaving off" the year part is unlikely but it certainly could be replaced with an X, which does reflect what's happening in reality. Capital "XXX" is also used to designate an unknown Language in 2.4, so there's precedent here. Many apps allow this behavior so you wouldn't be alone. I apologize for not being much help, but hey, only the spec authors can answer for sure. :) Off-topic: Has an ID3.org forum been discussed? I think it would be easier to follow topics, it seems a few good topics go unreplied. Jud --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Thu Jan 4 21:50:48 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:50:48 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag archive and a couple questions Message-ID: <459DE738.6030506@cdtag.com> Hello all, I'm new to the list and just wanted to take a minute to say hello and introduce myself. I've been using ID3v2 in C++ since 1999. I currently live in Houston (US) with my fianc?e and one furry cat, and have been in professional software development for some years. My current technical focus is on client-side C#. I author some tagging software in my spare time and may release a lib I'm working on in C#. I've put together a collection of 93,000 ID3v2 tags intended for library authors to test their code. The collection contains 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, compressed frames, unsynchronised tags, most (but not all) frame types, and lots of mis-written frames. I've taken note of the most common errors in implementation, but it's rather spread out at the moment in comments. I hope to consolidate this list and make it available. The tags archive is available here: http://cdtag.com/tags/id3tags.7z. A couple questions: - I've seen a lot of 2.4 frames in 2.3 tags, most likely some implementation trying to offer more content while not breaking apps that only support 2.3. Is there a consensus (right or wrong) on this behavior? What about additions to enum types? - Is there a new link for the wiki? Thanks for all your hard work. Jud --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Thu Jan 4 23:14:09 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 02:14:09 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag archive and a couple questions References: <459DE738.6030506@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <001f01c73099$1a2943f0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Hi Jud. When you say you are new to the list, I'm not sure how "new" you mean. You should be able to find the official wiki at http://www.id3.org It's really great to see that someone has an archive of tags that can be used for testing. I think it was a few months ago that compiling such an archive was considered a project that would never happen. Hopefully one of the wiki admins can find a way to incorporate your archive. As for the 2.4 frames in 2.3 tags, I think you are right that it is a compatibility effort. I think that foobar2000 is one of the players that offers such an option. The author of that app doesn't want to write a separate library for writing 2.3 tags but wants to offer some solution for those that use other apps or players that don't support 2.4 at all. I don't know if there is a consensus of opinion about this approach. My own opinion is that this approach isn't a permanent fix but at least a workable one until 2.4 gains more acceptance/support. (I'm not sure if you joined the list in time to see the messages from a couple days ago where it was suggested that use of 2.4 be discouraged because of the broken implementation used in iTunes. Just an example of why you might be seeing 2.4 frames in 2.3 tags.) Hopefully someone in a official position can answer this more fully. -Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jud White" To: Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:50 AM Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag archive and a couple questions > Hello all, > > I'm new to the list and just wanted to take a minute to say hello and > introduce myself. I've been using ID3v2 in C++ since 1999. I currently > live in Houston (US) with my fianc?e and one furry cat, and have been in > professional software development for some years. My current technical > focus is on client-side C#. I author some tagging software in my spare > time and may release a lib I'm working on in C#. > > I've put together a collection of 93,000 ID3v2 tags intended for library > authors to test their code. The collection contains 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, > compressed frames, unsynchronised tags, most (but not all) frame types, > and lots of mis-written frames. I've taken note of the most common > errors in implementation, but it's rather spread out at the moment in > comments. I hope to consolidate this list and make it available. The > tags archive is available here: http://cdtag.com/tags/id3tags.7z. > > A couple questions: > - I've seen a lot of 2.4 frames in 2.3 tags, most likely some > implementation trying to offer more content while not breaking apps that > only support 2.3. Is there a consensus (right or wrong) on this > behavior? What about additions to enum types? > - Is there a new link for the wiki? > > Thanks for all your hard work. > > Jud > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Sat Jan 13 07:56:06 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:56:06 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location - prepend/append combination References: <45A8E517.5090707@audiott.com> Message-ID: <00b001c7372b$5ee81d20$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> If I am reading your picture/diagram correctly, I think the SEEK offset is incorrect. The spec states "The 'minimum offset to next tag' is calculated from the end of this tag to the beginning of the next". So I think that would be the offset from the end of the padding in the first tag to the header of the second tag. (In other words, it would be equal to the size of the audio data in your diagram.) By the way, have you thought about becoming an editor for the wiki? I think diagrams like you included in your email would be a great addition and make things much easier to understand. --Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Michal Vician To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:56 AM Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location - prepend/append combination Hi, I have another question concerning the location of a v2.4 tag. As you know, there are three scenarios how one can write v2.4 tag: 1.. Prepend the tag. 2.. Prepend a tag with all vital information and add a second tag at the end of the file, before tags from other tagging systems. The first tag is required to have a SEEK frame. 3.. Add a tag at the end of the file, before tags from other tagging systems. The 1. and the 3. scenario is clear for me. But I am not sure if I correctly understand the second scenario. I have attached my interpretation of how such tag should look like. Please correct me if I'm doing something wrong. Regards, Miso ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bmearns at coe.neu.edu Wed Jan 24 03:31:28 2007 From: bmearns at coe.neu.edu (Brian Mearns) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:31:28 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> He's right it doesn't work (at least not in an obvious way) with IE, but Moz is free and vastly superior, and allows you to save the given url (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico) as an icon file. (Win32 icon file with multiple sizes and color pallets, circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one...) Now I'm highly tempted not to do this because, frankly, you're whining. But I've attached the icon file so this damned thread can just stop. -Brian Jud White wrote: > I used Firefox to get the icon, as suggested. > http://cdtag.com/id3v2icon.zip > > Jim wrote: >> Well, I could email you the icon file. But this would be the same file >> that is downloaded from the link that Dan O'Neill originally posted. >> (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico >> ) >> >> When I save the file from that link, I get an icon file that has 4 >> different icons (32x32 16 color, 32x32 256 color, 48x48 16 color, >> 48x48 256 color). From what you wrote it seems like you already tried >> downloading this file and that isn't what you want so I'm guessing >> that emailing it to you would be a waste of time? >> --Jim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Dale Preston >> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:28 PM >> *Subject:* RE: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> Thank you. I still don?t have the icon. One response suggests that >> there?s no time to develop one. I guess that person didn?t know >> that the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just >> download the icon but it doesn?t. The HTML in the page is not a >> link to the file nor does it offer the address of the file. The >> HTML calls a script that retrieves and renders the file. I have >> viewed the source of the page and there is no way to get the icon >> URL from that code. >> >> Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a >> Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 >> icon is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I >> am sure the code for rendering the images, rather than simply >> letting the web server and HTML render the images, is real nifty >> but it is a mistake to use it for rendering icons. >> >> It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask >> for one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. >> One was able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the >> icon with wget ? apparently a program but I am not familiar with >> its use ? and stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have >> been just as easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I >> had pleaded. >> >> Thanks for trying, Manuel. >> >> Dale >> >> *From:* Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] >> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM >> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >> *Subject:* Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not >> able to check my emails regularly. >> If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file >> and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you >> might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to >> download it then. >> >> -Manuel >> >> Dale Preston schrieb: >> >> Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the >> developer info >> >> page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not the >> whole >> >> icon file. >> >> >> If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to >> me? It >> >> would surely be appreciated. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Dale Preston >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM >> >> To: id3v2 at id3.org >> >> Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >> >> >> Dale Preston wrote: >> >> >> On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place >> that is >> supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying >> correctly and >> even if it were it would not provide access to all of the >> embedded >> versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO >> file? >> >> >> >> All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link >> to the >> .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. >> >> >> >> http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3 >> >> >> >> v2.ico >> >> >> dan >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: id3v2.ico Type: image/x-icon Size: 8422 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Thu Jan 25 19:07:33 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:07:33 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Apache mime types fixed (was Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon) In-Reply-To: <45B84B38.4090905@northpb.com> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> <45B8218E.2040207@coe.neu.edu> <45B84B38.4090905@northpb.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Dan for looking in to that. Dale -----Original Message----- From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:16 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: [ID3 Dev] Apache mime types fixed (was Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon) Hi Dale, Brian and others, Apache was delivering the .ico file with a text/plain mime type. I've added image/x-icon mime type to /etc/mime.types and the icon file now displays properly in IE. I'm a bit stumped as to why IE wants to save these files as .bmp (bitmap) files when you right click Save Picture As. Solutions are always welcome - drop me a note directly if you've got an answer. I'll also note that Brian has edited the page and placed the .ico file into a zip file and made that link available right below the .ico image. Regards, Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Fri Jan 12 08:03:01 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:03:01 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location In-Reply-To: <45A7B03F.1040006@audiott.com> References: <45A7B03F.1040006@audiott.com> Message-ID: <45A7B135.7030302@audiott.com> I'm sorry, I just want to correct my question. The word "like" is missing in my previous post: ...So, if there are some other "tagging systems" appended to the file, would the ID3v2.4 tag be located_ like _this?:... Michal Vician wrote: > Hi, > > In ?5 (Tag location) of ID3v2.4 specification is written, that tag may > be located at the end of the file, but *"before tags from other > tagging systems".* > I just want to check if understand the word *"before"* correctly. So, > if there are some other "tagging systems" appended to the file, would > the ID3v2.4 tag be located this?: > > ------------------------------ > Audio data > ------------------------------ > *ID3v2.4 tag* > ------------------------------ > Lyrics3 > ------------------------------ > ID3v1 tag > ------------------------------ > > Many thanks, > Miso --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From cody.dw.jones at gmail.com Fri Jan 26 09:00:48 2007 From: cody.dw.jones at gmail.com (Cody DW Jones) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:00:48 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Re: APIC clarification References: Message-ID: <0pckr298n3mcb6bitukhlbflrh0eodvhek@4ax.com> Dale, >You can have more than one of each picture type. The content descriptor is >the text description. The only exception to that is the Other and the 32x32 >pixel icon picture types, type 0 and 1, respectively. Those two types can >only exist once in the tag. Thank you for your prompt response! That clears it up nicely. Cody --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From bmearns at coe.neu.edu Wed Jan 24 19:18:38 2007 From: bmearns at coe.neu.edu (Brian Mearns) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:18:38 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: <45B8218E.2040207@coe.neu.edu> Well, I am sorry about the whining crack. It wasn't really necessary. I would argue rather vehemently, however, that at least half of developers most certainly do NOT use IE. However, that's not really the point. The point is that the icon or lack there of shouldn't really exclude anyone from fully utilizing any existing implementations or libraries related to ID3, nor should it prevent any developer from developing such an implementation or library. So I think we can all appreciate the bug report you offered, but I hope you can see why it would be such a low priority, since it doesn't really exclude anyone. I would also point out that the bug is in IE, not the wiki. This is evidenced by the fact that it works in Mozilla, IE just doesn't know how to render files of that type properly. I really can't think of anyway that it could be fixed on the wiki side, the fix would have to be in IE itself. As a work around till the Evil Empire gets on the ball, I've packed the ico in a zip and added it to the wiki. It appears as a link directly below the actual icon file. I realize we're now excluding people who use IE and don't have a decompressing tool, but hopefully that'll be a null set. Sorry you had such a rough introduction to the group. Things usually go pretty smoothly here, so hopefully the future will prove more helpful and copasetic for you. -Brian Dale Preston wrote: > Thank you. > > I am sorry you felt I was whining. I wasn't. I didn't pursue the thread or > respond to comments like "the team doesn't have time to develop icons" when, > in fact, the web page advertises the existence of an icon. Finally, after > many days, someone else offered a suggestion. I took the opportunity to > explain why I was unable to get the icon and to repeat my simple request to > have it emailed. > > The link is still wrong. Granted, it may work with Mozilla, but 90% of ID3 > tag users and developers have IE. Is it the specific intent of the ID3 team > to exclude IE users? I don't think so. That means the failure of the icon > to work as expected in IE is a bug. I just pointed it out. There was no > whining. > > Thank you again for sending the icon. It is much appreciated. > > Dale Preston > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Mearns [mailto:bmearns at coe.neu.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:31 AM > To: id3v2 at id3.org > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon > > He's right it doesn't work (at least not in an obvious way) with IE, but Moz > is free and vastly superior, and allows you to save the given url > (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2. > ico) > as an icon file. (Win32 icon file with multiple sizes and color pallets, > circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one...) > > Now I'm highly tempted not to do this because, frankly, you're whining. > But I've attached the icon file so this damned thread can just stop. > > -Brian > > Jud White wrote: >> I used Firefox to get the icon, as suggested. >> http://cdtag.com/id3v2icon.zip >> >> Jim wrote: >>> Well, I could email you the icon file. But this would be the same >>> file that is downloaded from the link that Dan O'Neill originally posted. >>> (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target >>> =id3v2.ico >>> >> =id3v2.ico>) >>> >>> When I save the file from that link, I get an icon file that has 4 >>> different icons (32x32 16 color, 32x32 256 color, 48x48 16 color, >>> 48x48 256 color). From what you wrote it seems like you already tried >>> downloading this file and that isn't what you want so I'm guessing >>> that emailing it to you would be a waste of time? >>> --Jim >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Dale Preston >>> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:28 PM >>> *Subject:* RE: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >>> >>> Thank you. I still don't have the icon. One response suggests that >>> there's no time to develop one. I guess that person didn't know >>> that the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just >>> download the icon but it doesn't. The HTML in the page is not a >>> link to the file nor does it offer the address of the file. The >>> HTML calls a script that retrieves and renders the file. I have >>> viewed the source of the page and there is no way to get the icon >>> URL from that code. >>> >>> Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a >>> Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 >>> icon is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I >>> am sure the code for rendering the images, rather than simply >>> letting the web server and HTML render the images, is real nifty >>> but it is a mistake to use it for rendering icons. >>> >>> It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask >>> for one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. >>> One was able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the >>> icon with wget - apparently a program but I am not familiar with >>> its use - and stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have >>> been just as easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I >>> had pleaded. >>> >>> Thanks for trying, Manuel. >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> *From:* Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM >>> *To:* id3v2 at id3.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >>> >>> I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not >>> able to check my emails regularly. >>> If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file >>> and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you >>> might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to >>> download it then. >>> >>> -Manuel >>> >>> Dale Preston schrieb: >>> >>> Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the >>> developer info >>> >>> page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not >>> the whole >>> >>> icon file. >>> >>> >>> If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to >>> me? It >>> >>> would surely be appreciated. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> Dale Preston >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] >>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM >>> >>> To: id3v2 at id3.org >>> >>> Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon >>> >>> >>> Dale Preston wrote: >>> >>> >>> On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place >>> that is >>> supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying >>> correctly and >>> even if it were it would not provide access to all of the >>> embedded >>> versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full >>> ICO file? >>> >>> >>> >>> All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link >>> to the >>> .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&tar >>> get=id3 >>> >> rget=id3> >>> >>> >>> v2.ico >>> >>> >>> dan >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >>> >>> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >>> >>> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional >> commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From bmearns at coe.neu.edu Wed Jan 24 04:05:32 2007 From: bmearns at coe.neu.edu (Brian Mearns) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:05:32 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question Message-ID: <45B74B8C.2090904@coe.neu.edu> I have a question for developers who use an OO paradigm for ID3 work: Assuming there are different classes to implement different frames, but not neccessarily one class per frame (for instance, a class to handle text-frames and another to handle everything else), what pattern do you use to decide which class will be called on while parsing a tag? I'd like to keep it as abstract as possible so that, for instance, if I add another class to handle another type of frame later, it will be easy and consistent to work it in. Is that at all clear? Thanks, -Brian --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Mon Jan 8 20:58:05 2007 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:58:05 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] updates to existing ID3v2 standards? In-Reply-To: <20061226010356.HMCI6736.gx5.fuse.net@avoca> References: <20061226010356.HMCI6736.gx5.fuse.net@avoca> Message-ID: <45A320DD.2040509@northpb.com> Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > I?d like to propose that we open up the existing ID3 specifications for > updates in order to make clarifications or to make slight tweaks to > existing sections. I think the opening paragraph states that this should be allowed http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0 "The contents in this document may change for clarifications but never for added or altered functionallity." > 1) Clarifications of an existing specification which don?t change the spec I think this is covered, see above comment. > 2) Slight alteration of an existing standard in light of de facto > standards used by overwhelming majority of ID3 apps/libs Not sure this fits as it's a modification, not a clarification, of a "standard" that's been out for a long time. > (I?m hoping that the use of the ID3.org Wiki, with its revision history, > will alleviate some of the hesitation to make the kinds of changes I > suggest.) What about putting forth 2.3.1 and explain the branch and differences? It is always possible to change the language, ordering, and documentation around the "standards" documents in order to provide appropriate clarification. Please note that a lot of people link into id3.org so it will be important to try and maintain external to internal link relationships (many are currently mapped with apache rewrite rules for the transition from raw html to a wiki). Version control of changes is always tricky. I'd like to suggest that we agree to point people to the document that best fits the current state of the art and then update the document, with version numbers, behind that pointer. Thoughts? dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Fri Jan 12 13:02:22 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:02:22 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation Message-ID: <11794D682226446895D865B50E20B8A6.MAI@cdtag.com> That's my interpretation. I would certainly say these 3 scenarios are valid. If an unsync tag header bit is set, I would read all tags as unsync since most likely the writer just ignored setting the new bit in the frame header, but knew to set the tag header (a la 2.3). This is good information to add to the clarification wikis. Hope someone authoritative can chime in. Jim's suggestion (which is probably implicitly required by the spec, or is at least a best practice) in another post about not writing footers to prepended tags, and hopefully some clarification to ATXT, CHAP, CTOC can be incorporated soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michal Vician [mailto:id3v2 at audiott.com] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:48:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation So you say that there are only three situations as far as we talk about ID3v2.4 ? : 1. no frame was affected by unsynchronisation (all sync bits are _not set_) 2. only few frames were affected (only bits of affected frames are _set_, header sync bit is _not set_) 3. all frames were affected (header sync bit and sync bits of all frames are _set_) Jud White wrote: > I would say no, it's not valid based on the following: > > a - Unsynchronisation > > Bit 7 in the 'ID3v2 flags' indicates whether or not > unsynchronisation is applied on all frames (see section 6.1 for > details); a set bit indicates usage. > > and, from the quote below: > > "This bit MUST be set if the frame was altered by the unsynchronisation" > > For writing I would use both if all frames were subject to unsynchronisation. My guess is that others readers are more likely to respect to unsync bit in the tag header than the frame header, so I would do all or nothing. Just a guess based on the likeliness that most 2.4 implementations stemmed from 2.3. > > For reading I would take an extra cautious approach when reading unsync'd tags since sometimes they're really unsync'd and sometimes they're not. For APIC this is easy - validate the image, if it's bad, try reading the frame normally. > > Jud > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michal Vician [mailto:id3v2 at audiott.com] > To: id3v2 at id3.org > Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:12:26 +0100 > Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation > > Hi again, > > I have a question concerning the unsynchronisation of ID3v2.4 tag. > In the specification is stated the following: > > To indicate usage of the unsynchronisation, the unsynchronisation > flag in the frame header should be set. This bit MUST be set if the > frame was altered by the unsynchronisation and SHOULD NOT be set if > unaltered. If all frames in the tag are unsynchronised the > unsynchronisation flag in the tag header SHOULD be set. It MUST NOT > be set if the tag has a frame which is not unsynchronised. > > OK, I understand. This means, that if whole tag is unsynchronized, the > header "unsynchronization flag" is set and also "unsynchronization > flags" of all frames are set. But, I am not sure if the situation can > happen that header "unsynchronization flag" is set and > "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are NOT SET. Is such situation > valid in ID3v2.4? > > Regards, > Miso -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Fri Jan 12 12:03:11 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:03:11 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation Message-ID: <95849412B3CE45DEBB8214B9F214B875.MAI@cdtag.com> A forum sure would make it easier to edit my typos :) "My guess is that other readers are more likely to respect the unsync bit in the tag header than the frame header" Jud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jud White [mailto:jwhite at cdtag.com] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:57:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation I would say no, it's not valid based on the following: a - Unsynchronisation Bit 7 in the 'ID3v2 flags' indicates whether or not unsynchronisation is applied on all frames (see section 6.1 for details); a set bit indicates usage. and, from the quote below: "This bit MUST be set if the frame was altered by the unsynchronisation" For writing I would use both if all frames were subject to unsynchronisation. My guess is that others readers are more likely to respect to unsync bit in the tag header than the frame header, so I would do all or nothing. Just a guess based on the likeliness that most 2.4 implementations stemmed from 2.3. For reading I would take an extra cautious approach when reading unsync'd tags since sometimes they're really unsync'd and sometimes they're not. For APIC this is easy - validate the image, if it's bad, try reading the frame normally. Jud ----- Original Message ----- From: Michal Vician [mailto:id3v2 at audiott.com] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:12:26 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation Hi again, I have a question concerning the unsynchronisation of ID3v2.4 tag. In the specification is stated the following: To indicate usage of the unsynchronisation, the unsynchronisation flag in the frame header should be set. This bit MUST be set if the frame was altered by the unsynchronisation and SHOULD NOT be set if unaltered. If all frames in the tag are unsynchronised the unsynchronisation flag in the tag header SHOULD be set. It MUST NOT be set if the tag has a frame which is not unsynchronised. OK, I understand. This means, that if whole tag is unsynchronized, the header "unsynchronization flag" is set and also "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are set. But, I am not sure if the situation can happen that header "unsynchronization flag" is set and "unsynchronization flags" of all frames are NOT SET. Is such situation valid in ID3v2.4? Regards, Miso -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Thu Jan 18 14:06:51 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:06:51 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 Message-ID: <3E58374457DF4CC1AA002715F5E75DB5.MAI@cdtag.com> n-bit: dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6dB * n) 16-bit: dB = value/(65535) * (96dB) where 'value' is an RVAD 2.3 adjustment. The '6' constant is 20*log10(2) (which is ~6.02) I think.. maybe I'll post on Hydrogen Audio ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim [mailto:jmartin92 at comcast.net] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:50:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 So then for the value to db conversion it would be: db = 20 * log10 ( 1.0 [+ or -] value/65536) where the + or - would be decided by the increment/decrement flag?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Allison" To: Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > This would correspond to value/65536 (-12850/65536 = 0.196, > -26471/65536 = 0.404) > > Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > > > > For what it's worth... > > When I implemented the RVAD frame for my ID3 library, I found the > > iTunes implemented it, so I used its implementation as a guide. (In > > spite of iTunes' mangling of ID3v4.) The iTunes UI has a "Volume > > Adjustment" slider which goes from -100% to +100% with tic marks at > > every 20%. A -20% in iTunes results in the Right Volume and the Left > > Volume fields being "Decrement 12850". -40% was "Decrement 26471". > > At the time, I scratched my head a bit, wondering why the frame would > > need these large values, but I didn't really delve into it too far. > > > > - Mitchell S. Honnert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jud White" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > > > > > > Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please > > help, anybody :) > > > >> From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: > > The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) > > for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. > > > > One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the > > way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit > > for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for > > interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major > > implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance > > issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). > > > > What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each > > bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB > > (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of > > representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent > > 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of > > exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a > > curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does > > the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm > > sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) > > If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. > > > > Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html > > > > My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as > > n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in > > 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. > > > > Jud > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From andy at andy-k.co.uk Wed Jan 24 12:06:23 2007 From: andy at andy-k.co.uk (Andy K) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:06:23 -0000 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question In-Reply-To: <45B792A0.5040107@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: <45b7bc44.377fc1e5.10fc.fffff880@mx.google.com> I also maintain a dictionary (which is static and the factory is a singleton) and I have just mapped each frame specified in the spec to a method in the factory. I think it's the easiest way rather than implementing wild card mappings. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Mearns [mailto:bmearns at coe.neu.edu] Sent: 24 January 2007 17:09 To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question Thanks Jud and Andy, for the response. The factory method Andy described is more or less how I do it now, but with a dictionary like Jud described. The problem is that I want more general coverage than having to specifically register every frameID. For instance, as I mentioned, I have a class TextFrame that is the base class for implementing T*** frames like title and artist. Instead of having to register TextFrame for all the different T*** frame ids, I'd like it to be smart enough to figure that out, while still delegating to the dictionary for other frames. I guess there's no reason I can't just IF it in to check if the frame id starts with T, and handle it correctly. That just seems ugly. Ideally, I'd like to be able to register different classes or factories for general classes of frames (not OO classes, just general groupings like the T*** class of frames) as well as for specific frame IDs. But I suppose the T*** and non-T*** are the only real classes of frames there are, so it wouldn't be difficult to kluge it. But I still feel like it is a kluge. Thanks, -Brian Jud White wrote: > Brian, > I keep two dictionaries for each tag format, one for single occurrence > frames and one for multiple occurrence frames. The keys are always > FrameID's. The single occurrence dictionary's value is of type IFrame, > so without knowing the actual type of the specific frame you can call > the Read/Write methods, you just need to know the FrameID. The multiple > occurrence dictionary's value implements another interface with an Add > method that returns an IFrame, which can then have its Read/Write > methods called. I also use a type (UnknownFrame) to catch values not in > either dictionary and ensure they are written back. Adding another > supported frame just requires adding another key/value to the > appropriate dictionaries, no need to update the Read/Write methods of > the ID3 class. > > Brian Mearns wrote: >> I have a question for developers who use an OO paradigm for ID3 work: >> Assuming there are different classes to implement different frames, >> but not neccessarily one class per frame (for instance, a class to >> handle text-frames and another to handle everything else), what >> pattern do you use to decide which class will be called on while >> parsing a tag? I'd like to keep it as abstract as possible so that, >> for instance, if I add another class to handle another type of frame >> later, it will be easy and consistent to work it in. >> >> Is that at all clear? >> >> Thanks, >> -Brian >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mitch at honnert.com Sun Jan 14 15:46:50 2007 From: mitch at honnert.com (Mitchell S. Honnert) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:46:50 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] "numeric strings" Message-ID: <002d01c73836$ace77d70$6801a8c0@kendle.com> I have a broader question, but basically it all boils down to this... Is "19XX" a valid value for the Information field in the TYER (Recording Year) frame? Based on my reading of the ID3v2.3.0 spec, I don't believe it is. Here's the TYER spec... "The 'Year' frame is a numeric string with a year of the recording. This frames is always four characters long (until the year 10000)." And this is from Section 2, "Conventions in the document"... "A numeric string is a string that consists of the characters 0-9 only." Regardless of the potential benefit for storing approximate years, it seems rather straightforward that the spec would not allow the "19XX" value. However, it seems not uncommon for apps and libs to allow it. So, does "numeric string" really mean "0-9" only or should we discuss the frames with exceptions to the rule and document the results? Thanks, Mitchell S. Honnert www.UltraID3Lib.com PS: Is there anyone that's been involved with the spec long enough to remember the reasoning for a storing number as a "numeric string" in the Text Information Frames? Outside of this discussion list, I do my share of defending the standard, but just between us, it seems that with all of the rather esoteric frame types defined in the standard, it would have made much more sense to have a "Numeric Information Frames" section that defined frames which stored numbers in a binary fashion. Then, the whole question of whether "19XX" was valid would have been moot. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From Brian at schif.org Mon Jan 29 18:59:56 2007 From: Brian at schif.org (Brian Schiffhauer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:59:56 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] New mail address ... References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> <020401c743f6$24f7bda0$6401a8c0@useronewin2klt> <45BEAF4F.2040202@northpb.com> Message-ID: <005301c7441a$b913f5c0$6401a8c0@useronewin2klt> hehe TY, got it:) Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan O'Neill" To: Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 21:37 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] New mail address ... > madhtr wrote: >> Will the Godz please change my email address to: >> >> Brian at schif.org >> >> Thanx :) > > In order to maintain the integrity of the list could you simply send a > mail message from that account to id3v2-subscribe at id3.org and then reply > to the confirmation? > > That way you've confirmed the subscription rather than me simply adding > people to the list. > > "Ray... If someone asks you if you're a god, say YES!" > -- Ghost Busters > > Well, I'm not and I'm happy to help if you can't get the subscription > stuff to work properly. Let me know. > > Sincerely, > > Dan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From madhtr at unitec-md.com Mon Jan 29 14:38:03 2007 From: madhtr at unitec-md.com (madhtr) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:38:03 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] New mail address ... References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> <45B6ECAB.2080904@cdtag.com> <45B74390.3010401@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: <020401c743f6$24f7bda0$6401a8c0@useronewin2klt> Will the Godz please change my email address to: Brian at schif.org Thanx :) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Fri Jan 12 12:57:31 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:57:31 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2.4 Unsynchronisation In-Reply-To: <95849412B3CE45DEBB8214B9F214B875.MAI@cdtag.com> References: <95849412B3CE45DEBB8214B9F214B875.MAI@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <45A7F63B.8060208@audiott.com> Jud White wrote: > A forum sure would make it easier to edit my typos :) > > "My guess is that other readers are more likely to respect the unsync bit in the tag header than the frame header" > > Jud My opinion is that the frame header unsync bit is great innovation to the standard, because you don't have to hold the whole tag in the memory and run synchronization on it if you want to read a small piece from the tag (e.g. a single frame). You just skip all frames you are not interested in and synchronize the one you want at the moment. I wish this feature was here from the version 2.0 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jmartin92 at comcast.net Tue Jan 23 19:26:08 2007 From: jmartin92 at comcast.net (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:26:08 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> Message-ID: <006601c73f67$bd3b4cf0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Well, I could email you the icon file. But this would be the same file that is downloaded from the link that Dan O'Neill originally posted. (http://id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico) When I save the file from that link, I get an icon file that has 4 different icons (32x32 16 color, 32x32 256 color, 48x48 16 color, 48x48 256 color). From what you wrote it seems like you already tried downloading this file and that isn't what you want so I'm guessing that emailing it to you would be a waste of time? --Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Preston To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: RE: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon Thank you. I still don't have the icon. One response suggests that there's no time to develop one. I guess that person didn't know that the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just download the icon but it doesn't. The HTML in the page is not a link to the file nor does it offer the address of the file. The HTML calls a script that retrieves and renders the file. I have viewed the source of the page and there is no way to get the icon URL from that code. Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 icon is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I am sure the code for rendering the images, rather than simply letting the web server and HTML render the images, is real nifty but it is a mistake to use it for rendering icons. It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask for one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. One was able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the icon with wget - apparently a program but I am not familiar with its use - and stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have been just as easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I had pleaded. Thanks for trying, Manuel. Dale From: Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not able to check my emails regularly. If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to download it then. -Manuel Dale Preston schrieb: Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the developer infopage but the link you included here shows a picture - just not the wholeicon file. If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to me? Itwould surely be appreciated. Thanks, Dale Preston -----Original Message-----From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PMTo: id3v2 at id3.orgSubject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon Dale Preston wrote: On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=id3v2.ico dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.orgFor additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.orgFor additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benski at winamp.com Thu Jan 18 11:45:31 2007 From: benski at winamp.com (Ben Allison) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:45:31 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 In-Reply-To: <4BFA4B9507E54BD8B8B620912848ED1B.MAI@cdtag.com> References: <4BFA4B9507E54BD8B8B620912848ED1B.MAI@cdtag.com> Message-ID: <45AFCE5B.5030409@winamp.com> We use ReplayGain, which standardizes the reference volume, hearing threshold filtering and storage mechanism. For ID3v2.3+, it is stored in TXXX frames with descriptions "replaygain_track_gain", "replaygain_album_gain", "replaygain_track_peak" and "replaygain_track_album". The old RVAD tag seems to be ill-defined and broken - the meaning of the value stored seems to be up to the program that wrote it! I would be surprised if you even ran across a file with this information. -Ben Allison Jud White wrote: > Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please help, anybody :) > > >From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: > The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. > > One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). > > What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. > > Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html > > My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. > > Jud > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Wed Jan 24 06:23:21 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:23:21 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Implementation question In-Reply-To: <45B74B8C.2090904@coe.neu.edu> References: <45B74B8C.2090904@coe.neu.edu> Message-ID: <45B76BD9.5090209@cdtag.com> Brian, I keep two dictionaries for each tag format, one for single occurrence frames and one for multiple occurrence frames. The keys are always FrameID's. The single occurrence dictionary's value is of type IFrame, so without knowing the actual type of the specific frame you can call the Read/Write methods, you just need to know the FrameID. The multiple occurrence dictionary's value implements another interface with an Add method that returns an IFrame, which can then have its Read/Write methods called. I also use a type (UnknownFrame) to catch values not in either dictionary and ensure they are written back. Adding another supported frame just requires adding another key/value to the appropriate dictionaries, no need to update the Read/Write methods of the ID3 class. Brian Mearns wrote: > I have a question for developers who use an OO paradigm for ID3 work: > Assuming there are different classes to implement different frames, > but not neccessarily one class per frame (for instance, a class to > handle text-frames and another to handle everything else), what > pattern do you use to decide which class will be called on while > parsing a tag? I'd like to keep it as abstract as possible so that, > for instance, if I add another class to handle another type of frame > later, it will be easy and consistent to work it in. > > Is that at all clear? > > Thanks, > -Brian > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Wed Jan 24 18:28:21 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:28:21 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <20070124034446.GA11997@ayup.limey.net> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> <000301c73f5f$647264d0$2d572e70$@com> <20070124034446.GA11997@ayup.limey.net> Message-ID: Well, I am stunned. This is certainly not the introduction to the group I had hoped for. I have entered the link you gave into IE 6 and IE 7 on multiple computers each. In no case was I offered the opportunity to download. All I got was a single bitmap image displayed in the browser. If I right click the image and select to save, I am offered only to save the single bitmap. The bitmap I save is 3126 bytes. If I rename it to .ico and open it in Visual Studio 2005, I get a single 32x32 bitmap of 16 colors. I do not get a bitmap file. I would like to express my sincere gratitude to those who sought to help but my remarks were not directed to or about those responses. My remarks, which were not flaming, only detailed, were targeted at those who gave abrupt and negative responses without even understanding the issue. For instance, one respondent stated that the team doesn't have time to develop icons and if I wanted an icon, there were many tools available for creating them. Clearly, this is an uninformed response offered without thought or consideration of the issue. I'm not sure for what I would owe this person an apology. I am sorry that my first exposure to and in the group has turned so negative. It certainly wasn't my intention. All I had asked for was help in getting the icon and to point out functionality that wasn't always working as expected. Regards, Dale Preston -----Original Message----- From: Ben Bennett [mailto:fiji at ayup.limey.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:45 PM To: Dale Preston Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon Attached. Please do me a favor and compare the file size with what you get from a right click on the image and "save image as". If it is the same, an apology to the list would be appreciated. I tested with 2 versions of IE and I can download the icon file with 4 different sizes in it. -ben On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 08:28:54PM -0600, Dale Preston wrote: > Thank you. I still don't have the icon. One response suggests that > there's no time to develop one. I guess that person didn't know that > the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just download the icon but it > doesn't. The HTML in the page is not a link to the file nor does it offer > the address of the file. The HTML calls a script that retrieves and > renders the file. I have viewed the source of the page and there is > no way to get the icon URL from that code. > > > > Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a > Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 icon > is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I am sure > the code for rendering the images, rather than simply letting the web > server and HTML render the images, is real nifty but it is a mistake > to use it for rendering icons. > > > > It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask for > one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. One was > able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the icon with > wget - apparently a program but I am not familiar with its use - and > stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have been just as > easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I had pleaded. > > > > Thanks for trying, Manuel. > > > > Dale > > > > From: Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM > To: id3v2 at id3.org > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon > > > > I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not able > to check my emails regularly. > If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file and > insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you might be > able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to download it then. > > -Manuel > > Dale Preston schrieb: > > Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the > developer info page but the link you included here shows a picture - > just not the whole icon file. > > If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to me? > It would surely be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Dale Preston > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM > To: id3v2 at id3.org > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon > > Dale Preston wrote: > > > On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is > supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly > and even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded > versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? > > > > All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the > .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. > > http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile > get=id > 3> &do=get&target=id3 > v2.ico > > dan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional > commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional > commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From benski at winamp.com Sat Jan 6 10:01:29 2007 From: benski at winamp.com (Ben Allison) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 13:01:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <000801c731b1$64e6acc0$0400a8c0@dplaptop> References: <000801c731b1$64e6acc0$0400a8c0@dplaptop> Message-ID: <3608.75.75.86.10.1168106489.squirrel@mail.winamp.com> Speaking of the ID3v2 icon, I was driving around the other day, and saw a familiar looking logo on a building. Here's their website http://www.intelligent.net/publicweb/ (sorry if a bit off-topic) -Ben > On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is > supposed > to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and even if it > were it would not provide access to all of the embedded versions of the > icon. Is there a way to download the full .ICO file? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dale Preston > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mitch at honnert.com Mon Jan 1 11:28:20 2007 From: mitch at honnert.com (Mitchell S. Honnert) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 14:28:20 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] $xx (xx ...) In-Reply-To: <688201c72d3d$6cc25ac0$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Message-ID: <20070101192824.JSAL17462.gx6.fuse.net@avoca> >Where time stamp format is: >$01 Absolute time, 32 bit sized, using MPEG frames as unit >$02 Absolute time, 32 bit sized, using milliseconds as unit > Abolute time means that every stamp contains the time from > the beginning of the file A ha! I was overlooking that "32 bit sized" section in the format fields. Thanks for that. - Mitchell S. Honnert -----Original Message----- From: Jim [mailto:jmartin92 at comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:40 PM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] $xx (xx ...) I believe there is a field for each of these tags that will tell you how many bytes to expect. For example, for ETCO,
Time stamp format $xx Where time stamp format is: $01 Absolute time, 32 bit sized, using MPEG frames as unit $02 Absolute time, 32 bit sized, using milliseconds as unit Abolute time means that every stamp contains the time from the beginning of the file (that was taken from the ID3v2.3 spec) So for both cases you would expect 32 bits (or 4 bytes) for the time stamp. There are similar fields for each of the types of frames you cited. Check the specs again. (SYLT and POSS have the same type of field as ETCO. I think EQUA is only found in ID3v2.3 and has a different field but is documented in the spec.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitchell S. Honnert" To: Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: [ID3 Dev] $xx (xx ...) > OK. I give up. It's probably that I'm just not seeing it, but I can't find > any definition of this format. > > $xx (xx ...) > > I've found this pattern in the following frames... > > Event timing codes ETCO > Synchronised lyrics/text SYLT > Equalisation EQUA > Position synchronisation frame POSS > > ...and it relates to the Time Stamp or the Adjustment numeric field of the > respective tag. > > The format appears to translate to "a number consisting of one or more > bytes". But how are you supposed to know *how many* bytes more than one? > > At first I thought there might be some kind of flag in the frame that would > tell you how many bytes each TimeStamp/Adjustment number used, but I > couldn't find it. Then I thought that perhaps I could deduce the byte count > by using some pattern matching, but I couldn't come up with anything > definition. > > I even reversed engineered the Synchronized Lyrics frame created by Windows > Media Player to see how they did it, but they appear just to have hard-coded > the Time Stamp to four bytes. > > I'm going to feel pretty silly if I've just overlooked this, but I honestly > can't find it. So, wow are you supposed to know how many bytes are > represented by the "(xx ...)"? > > - Mitchell S. Honnert > > PS: This is yet another example of where we could make tweaks to current ID3 > versions (ID3v2.3 and ID3v2.4). Specifically, if most ID3 developers were > forced to interpret "$xx (xx ...)" as "$xx xx xx xx" because of ambiguous or > missing ID3 documentation, then we should just accept that this is the new > standard and document it accordingly. (And even if this is in the > documentation somewhere -- which is entirely possible -- we could at least > tweak the standards to make it more prominent.) > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Thu Jan 25 18:40:17 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:40:17 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] APIC clarification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can have more than one of each picture type. The content descriptor is the text description. The only exception to that is the Other and the 32x32 pixel icon picture types, type 0 and 1, respectively. Those two types can only exist once in the tag. HTH, Dale -----Original Message----- From: news [mailto:news at sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Cody DW Jones Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:25 PM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: [ID3 Dev] APIC clarification The 2.3.0 standard says "There may be several pictures attached to one file, each in their individual 'APIC' frame, but only one with the same content descriptor". Is the content descriptor the textual description field? In other words, no two pictures can be given the same description even if they're given different picture types? Regards, Cody --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From benski at winamp.com Sun Jan 14 14:13:19 2007 From: benski at winamp.com (Ben Allison) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 17:13:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [ID3 Dev] TKEY In-Reply-To: <001701c73824$21adb9c0$d621880a@kendle.com> References: <001701c73824$21adb9c0$d621880a@kendle.com> Message-ID: <2429.75.75.86.10.1168812799.squirrel@mail.winamp.com> A-G (required) + b or # (optional) + m (optional) According to music theory, not all combinations are valid (e.g. one would use Bb instead A#). If you want to be strict about it, the valid scales are listed at the bottom of the wikipedia entry about diatonic scales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_scale). However, I wouldn't recommend validating to that extent. -Ben Allison > I have a question about the implementation of the TKEY, the Initial Key, > frame. Here's the spec for TKEY... > > The 'Initial key' frame contains the musical key in which the sound > starts. > It is represented as a string with a maximum length of three characters. > The > ground keys are represented with "A","B","C","D","E", "F" and "G" and > halfkeys represented with "b" and "#". Minor is represented as "m". > Example > "Cbm". Off key is represented with an "o" only. > > I have no idea what a ground key or a halfkey is, so I really don't > understand what the valid combinations are. For example, is "A" by itself > a > valid value or does there have to be a halfkey, like "A#"? Basically, I'm > a > big music fan, but I know next to nothing about this kind of stuff. > > What would be really nice is if someone could provide a RegEx expression > to > validate the TKEY text, but short of that, an explanation of the valid > combinations of the above sections would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Mitchell S. Honnert > www.UltraID3Lib.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Thu Jan 18 12:48:38 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:48:38 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 Message-ID: I've seen "RVAD" and "RVA2" in 2.4, but always implemented as 2.3 (or even, broken 2.3 with 'bits representing adjustment' actually written as 'bytes', sigh). See the tags archive I posted earlier for examples, it may contain some "TCMP" or identifying COMM/PRIV frames. Any thoughts on the relationship between RVAD/RVA2? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim [mailto:jmartin92 at comcast.net] To: id3v2 at id3.org Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:31:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 This is slightly off topic but I was wondering if anyone knows of any apps that use the ID3v2.4 RVA2 frame for volume adjustment? (I think iTunes might but I don't have that here to check. And since their implementation of ID3v2.4 is broken anyway, I was hoping for something more compliant.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Allison" To: Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 > We use ReplayGain, which standardizes the reference volume, hearing > threshold filtering and storage mechanism. For ID3v2.3+, it is stored > in TXXX frames with descriptions "replaygain_track_gain", > "replaygain_album_gain", "replaygain_track_peak" and > "replaygain_track_album". > > The old RVAD tag seems to be ill-defined and broken - the meaning of the > value stored seems to be up to the program that wrote it! I would be > surprised if you even ran across a file with this information. > > -Ben Allison > > Jud White wrote: > > Turned up some information, but still need the gaps filled in. Please help, anybody :) > > > > >From the ID3v2.3 spec on RVAD: > > The 'bits used for volume description' field is normally $10 (16 bits) for MPEG 2 layer I, II and III and MPEG 2.5. > > > > One interpretation is the adjustment data is directly related to the way 16-bit audio is stored (let's assume we're talking about 16-bit for simplicity). I personally don't see any other possibilities for interpretation on this, although I'd be fine with asking any major implementor what they did. Nice to see Winamp fixed their Compliance issues, maybe they could shed some light on RVAD (if they use it). > > > > What I turned up (probably most of you know this already) is that each bit in digital audio is capable of representing roughly 6 dB (specifically, 20*log10(2) dB). Therefore, 16-bit audio is capable of representing 96 dB. Initially I was confused - how can 1 bit represent 6dB, and even if it does how does it increase linearally instead of exponentially? Quantization, or in other words, the curve isn't a curve it's a lot of little steps. As you increase bits not only does the max dB you can represent go up but the steps get smaller. Ok, I'm sure most of you know this, I'm writing to help myself understand. :) If someone wants to flesh out this description please do. > > > > Here's a good article: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~erick205/Papers/paper.html > > > > My take: RVAD/RVA adjustment is likely implemented the same way as n-bit audio. If it is, then dB = value/(2^n - 1) * (6 * n). e.g., in 16-bit audio: dB = value/65535 * 96. > > > > Jud > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Wed Jan 17 20:07:01 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:07:01 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] RVAD -> RVA2 In-Reply-To: References: <002d01c73836$ace77d70$6801a8c0@kendle.com> Message-ID: <45AEF265.7000205@cdtag.com> In 2.3 RVAD, are there units associated with the volume increase? I assume it's directly related to the way 16 bit audio is stored - is this correct? Is this value convertable to dB, for example, upgrading a 2.3 RVAD to 2.4 RVA2? Thanks guys Jud --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From jwhite at cdtag.com Tue Jan 9 11:43:14 2007 From: jwhite at cdtag.com (Jud White) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:43:14 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ATXT and CTOC/CHAP feedback Message-ID: <19AAE4AA484A478A953F38B8D3643F7A.MAI@cdtag.com> Hello, I have some feedback on ATXT and CTOC/CHAP. I think it would be best to add some clarification before implementation is widespread. CTOC/CHAP - Syncsafe frame sizes are explicitly shown in the examples. I think a disambiguation between 2.3 and 2.4 frame sizes should be included to ensure implementations don't use syncsafe frame sizes in 2.3 tags. As a side note I also agree with displaying this information more prominently in the 2.4 spec, maybe with a big red apple next to it to catch a certain company's attention. ATXT - Some more data points for the scrambling would be helpful, maybe even an example of what the first few bytes of an attached WAV file would look like. If there's a name for this technique maybe include it in the text so authors can find additional resources or implementations in their programming language. Sample of pseudo-random sequence: 000: 11111110 (0xFE) 001: 00000100 (0x04) 002: 00011000 (0x18) 003: 01010001 (0x51) ... 126: 01110011 (0x73) 127: 00101010 (0x2A) Example: 0x52 0x49 0x46 0x46 ('RIFF') 0x52 ^ 0xFE = 0xAC 0x49 ^ 0x04 = 0x4D 0x46 ^ 0x18 = 0x5E 0x46 ^ 0x51 = 0x17 Might want to check my math if you decide to update the article :) Jud -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at audiott.com Sat Jan 13 14:27:59 2007 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:27:59 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Tag location - prepend/append combination In-Reply-To: <00b001c7372b$5ee81d20$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> References: <45A8E517.5090707@audiott.com> <00b001c7372b$5ee81d20$6501a8c0@xp1800desk> Message-ID: <45A95CEF.1050409@audiott.com> > If I am reading your picture/diagram correctly, I think the SEEK > offset is incorrect. Thank you very much for reply. Now I see how "tired" I was, because I was thinking about the word "frame" and not "tag" when reading the spec :-) Thus the diagram looks like that. I'm sorry bothering you. > By the way, have you thought about becoming an editor for the wiki? I > think diagrams like you included in your email would be a great > addition and make things much easier to understand. Of course. I would be pleased if I can become an editor. I will provide more diagrams as soon as possible. For now, I've attached only a small .txt, which compares all existed ID3v2 versions. I've written it for the purpose of development my library, so I can see all ID3v2 versions on one paper :) The development is much easier then. Hope it will be helpful also for others. Regards, Miso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ID3v2 tag versions comparison.txt URL: -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From dalepres at msn.com Tue Jan 23 18:28:54 2007 From: dalepres at msn.com (Dale Preston) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:28:54 -0600 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon In-Reply-To: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> References: <45B46D95.9090308@yahoo.de> Message-ID: Thank you. I still don't have the icon. One response suggests that there's no time to develop one. I guess that person didn't know that the icon already exists. Others suggest that IE should just download the icon but it doesn't. The HTML in the page is not a link to the file nor does it offer the address of the file. The HTML calls a script that retrieves and renders the file. I have viewed the source of the page and there is no way to get the icon URL from that code. Whoever created the new site just made a mistake. If you render a Win32 icon as an image, you get an image, not an icon. A Win32 icon is not a bitmap but rather a collection of bitmaps. While I am sure the code for rendering the images, rather than simply letting the web server and HTML render the images, is real nifty but it is a mistake to use it for rendering icons. It is getting really frustrating. I guess it was too much to ask for one of those who have the full icon to just email it to me. One was able to email a reply to my request stating how to get the icon with wget - apparently a program but I am not familiar with its use - and stated that he had the icon. It seems it would have been just as easy, perhaps easier, to simply email the icon as I had pleaded. Thanks for trying, Manuel. Dale From: Manuel Teuber [mailto:teuber01_zigr at yahoo.de] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:54 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon I know it's a bit late for this answer but unfortunately i'm not able to check my emails regularly. If you want to get the icon file just copy the adress of this file and insert it into the adress field of your browser. Then you might be able to download it. At least Firefox offers me to download it then. -Manuel Dale Preston schrieb: Maybe it's an IE 7 issue. I still don't get the image in the developer info page but the link you included here shows a picture - just not the whole icon file. If you're able to get the ico file, would you mind emailing it to me? It would surely be appreciated. Thanks, Dale Preston -----Original Message----- From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:49 PM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3V2 Icon Dale Preston wrote: On the ID3.org Developer Information page, there's a place that is supposed to show an icon for ID3V2 but it isn't displaying correctly and even if it were it would not provide access to all of the embedded versions of the icon. Is there a way to download the full ICO file? All the graphics seem to be displaying properly. Here is a link to the .ico image, or you can right click on the image and save it. http://www.id3.org/Developer_Information?action=AttachFile &do=get&target=id3 v2.ico dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: