From mitch at honnert.com Sun Dec 18 09:56:41 2005 From: mitch at honnert.com (Mitchell S. Honnert) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:56:41 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Worst cases of "ID3 offenders"? In-Reply-To: <439FFC71.5070001@northpb.com> Message-ID: <20051218175638.SNKG24344.gx6.fuse.net@avoca> >did you ever collect your list of offending players >and their behaviors? I didn't until your e-mail. ;-) But I've since gone through the e-mails and compiled a list, including adding columns for ID3 Version, App/Lib/Encoder, Symptom, Description, and Submitter. See attached. >If you've created the list, I'd like to put it up on id3.org >and start tracking player revision/bugs. That's a great idea. My page wouldn't have any noticeable affect outside the users of my library, but posting this list to www.id3.org might actually shame some developers into fixing their software. Some comments... In looking over the list, it looks like the "offenders" fall into a couple of categories. One is where the frame or tag is flat out corrupted. The software either doesn't write the frame in the standard format or it just makes up its own frame. The other is a little trickier. Some apps won't create an ill formatted tag, but will simply read the tag improperly or show the wrong data. I don't know if this category deserves its own column, but I personally would still include these violations in the "Offenders" list. I imagine that if you post these and solicit further input from the general public, you'll get quite a few responses. You probably don't have time to confirm each one of them yourself, so maybe you can add a "Confirmed By" column. Others (maybe only people on this DL?) would then be able to confirm that the report violation were legitimate. Also, I wouldn't count nonsupport as a criteria for an Offender. No one from the DL pointed out any examples where an application didn't support a particular frame as justification for being an Offender, but it might reduce some of the false "hits" from the general users of the site if this is noted somewhere. Well, I hope this helps. I'm looking forward to seeing a "ID3 Offender" section. (Every time I write the word offender, I think I Keith Richards's solo album, Main Offender.) - Mitchell S. Honnert -----Original Message----- From: Dan O'Neill [mailto:id3v2 at northpb.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 6:05 AM To: id3v2 at id3.org Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Worst cases of "ID3 offenders"? Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > Thanks for all of the responses. If anyone else has any more, keep'em > comin'. Otherwise I'll confirm these and post them to an "ID3 Offenders" > section. > > - Mitchell S. Honnert Mitchell - did you ever collect your list of offending players and their behaviors? If you've created the list, I'd like to put it up on id3.org and start tracking player revision/bugs. Thanks, dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From fiji at ayup.limey.net Wed Dec 28 17:15:34 2005 From: fiji at ayup.limey.net (Ben Bennett) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:15:34 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] iTunes id3 tag v2.4 In-Reply-To: <7EEB8EF3-6729-4430-90C8-4C53D1B2A147@gmail.com> References: <7EEB8EF3-6729-4430-90C8-4C53D1B2A147@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051229011534.GA26577@ayup.limey.net> > What is going on here? I'm getting the urge to just jump in and code > my own id3 tag library, but with so many out there, there's no reason > why it should be breaking so badly. Is there something seriously > wrong with the iTunes id3 v2.4 implementation? Shouldn't there be a > work-around still? The problem probably is that Apple screwed up their 2.4 implementation and _did not_ use syncsafe integers for the lengths. So if the frame is > 127 bytes then the size will be misread. Prior to 2.4 the length was not syncsafe, and this changed with v 2.4. But Apple seemed not to have noticed. They also didn't change the flag field to the 2.4 form when I converted a 2.3 tag in iTunes... I have come to the conclusion that 2.4 is implemented differently by every package that writes it and there is no way to write a portable 2.4 tag. I recommend not writing 2.4. Which is too bad, becuase I wanted to use UTF-8. -ben --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From drabus at gmx.de Wed Dec 14 01:02:43 2005 From: drabus at gmx.de (Daniel Rabus) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:02:43 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation In-Reply-To: <000e01c5ffff$fe1c0640$87000105@kendle.com> References: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> <439EC869.9000201@gmx.de> <000e01c5ffff$fe1c0640$87000105@kendle.com> Message-ID: <439FDFB3.20603@gmx.de> Hi Mitchell, I think you're right: By maintaining a controlled vocabulary it's almost impossible to cover all genres. On the other side, if everyone creates new (sub) genres this new values are in danger to become meaningless. Especially if they are not related to the base genres (including the winamp extensions). >> From the Content Type (TCON) frame description in the standards... > > "You may use one or several of the types as ID3v1.1 did or, since the > category list would be impossible to maintain with accurate and up to > date categories, define your own." So, according to my understanding, wouldn't it be better to suggest something like "You should use at least one of the ID3v1.1 types best matching your intended genre. Additionally, you may add your own definition. ..." This way there is no need to change the base values, new genres are in relation to the existing definitions and therefore providing a kind of "safe fallback" mechanism: If a user defined genre is somewhat strange and exotic there is still a way to get a clue by looking on the related values. (Rating the relations might be another improvement) Just my thoughts. Daniel Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > Daniel, as far as I understand it, the ID3 standard is getting away from > a predefined set of genres values. There is an appendix of the v1 > standard genre values in the v2.3 standard, but the v2.3 standard allows > for a free-form genre value, so the "support" for defined genres seems > to be tangential at best. > >> From the Content Type (TCON) frame description in the standards... > > "You may use one or several of the types as ID3v1.1 did or, since the > category list would be impossible to maintain with accurate and up to > date categories, define your own." > > My take on this is that genres are so subjective and ever-changing, that > maintaining a master list be a fruitless and never-ending effort. > Because of this, I think your idea of adding Genre support is going to > be a tough sell. I can only speak for myself, but it just seems to run > in the opposite direction of the ID3 standard. > > - Mitchell S. Honnert > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Rabus" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:11 AM > Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation > > >> Well, maybe my initial posting was a little bit unclear... >> >> The Problem: There is still a need for some standardized mapping from a >> genre ID to an URI. >> >> Background: In RDF it's essential to refer to a resource using a URI. So >> if I create a RDF description of a MP3 file, like >> >> >> Briskeby >> Propaganda >> >> >> >> then 'xxx' should point to a URI referring the genre "Pop". If the URI >> is resolvable, i.e. an URL, additional human readable information (maybe >> a definition) may be accessible. Also additional statements like "Pop is >> related to PopRock" will be possible. Let's think about search >> engines... :-) >> >> Summary: The ID3 genre ID is a great concept to define the "kind of" >> music. Providing an semantically equivalent URI would raise additional >> benefits -- and allows proper integration into RDF. >> >> Anyone sharing my thoughts? Comments or suggestions? >> >> Daniel >> >> >> Mixmaster Slake schrieb: >> >>> Why not use the comment field? >>> >>> >>> >> >>>> ----- Original message ----- >>>> From: "Daniel Rabus" >>>> To: id3v2 at id3.org >>>> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:08:01 +0100 >>>> Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> are there any recommendations to map the existing ID3v1 genres to an >>>> URI? For any upcoming RDF applications this would be very useful. If >>>> there isn't such a standard yet, one way might be to refer to a >>>> genre listing and use the URL fragment as identifier. >>>> >>>> For example: >>>> http://www.id3.org/id3v1/genres# >>>> >>>> Any suggestions or existing solutions? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Daniel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From fiji at ayup.limey.net Tue Dec 13 07:02:49 2005 From: fiji at ayup.limey.net (Ben Bennett) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:02:49 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation In-Reply-To: <439EC869.9000201@gmx.de> References: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> <439EC869.9000201@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20051213150249.GA10052@ayup.limey.net> You could use the allmusic styles. You would have to make a mapping yourself, but there are far more allmusic styles than the standard genres (even if you include the winamp ones) so it should be possible, Hard rock is: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:217 -ben On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 02:11:05PM +0100, Daniel Rabus wrote: > Well, maybe my initial posting was a little bit unclear... > > The Problem: There is still a need for some standardized mapping from a > genre ID to an URI. > > Background: In RDF it's essential to refer to a resource using a URI. So > if I create a RDF description of a MP3 file, like > > > Briskeby > Propaganda > > > > then 'xxx' should point to a URI referring the genre "Pop". If the URI > is resolvable, i.e. an URL, additional human readable information (maybe > a definition) may be accessible. Also additional statements like "Pop is > related to PopRock" will be possible. Let's think about search > engines... :-) > > Summary: The ID3 genre ID is a great concept to define the "kind of" > music. Providing an semantically equivalent URI would raise additional > benefits -- and allows proper integration into RDF. > > Anyone sharing my thoughts? Comments or suggestions? > > Daniel > > > Mixmaster Slake schrieb: > >Why not use the comment field? > > > > > > > > >>----- Original message ----- > >>From: "Daniel Rabus" > >>To: id3v2 at id3.org > >>Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:08:01 +0100 > >>Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation > >> > >>Hi, > >> > >>are there any recommendations to map the existing ID3v1 genres to an > >>URI? For any upcoming RDF applications this would be very useful. If > >>there isn't such a standard yet, one way might be to refer to a genre > >>listing and use the URL fragment as identifier. > >> > >>For example: > >>http://www.id3.org/id3v1/genres# > >> > >>Any suggestions or existing solutions? > >> > >>Thanks, > >>Daniel > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From py.thoulon at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 02:14:42 2005 From: py.thoulon at gmail.com (Pyt) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:14:42 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Chapter frame addendum In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20051202170346.02de9e18@pop3> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20051202170346.02de9e18@pop3> Message-ID: Looks good to me... Pyt. On 12/5/05, Chris Newell wrote: > > Dear all, > > If you have any final comments please submit them by the end of this week. > Hopefully, these should only be minor since revision 3 has been available > for quite a while. I'm keen to finalize and publish the document as soon as > possible. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From py.thoulon at gmail.com Sun Dec 11 03:53:57 2005 From: py.thoulon at gmail.com (Pyt) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:53:57 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Chapter frame addendum In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.2.20051202170346.02de9e18@pop3> Message-ID: TYER is replaced with TDRC. See the document that describes the changes from v2.3 to v2.4 on id3.org. Regards, Pyt. On 12/9/05, Joseph Costello wrote: > > Chris, > wondering if you could help me, i was wondering about the TYER > frame. I couldnt find a reference to this in the 2.4 native frames > text file. I might be missing this but shouldnt the year frame be > inculded in the 2.4 standard or did this get replaced with another > frame? > > Thanks, > Joe > > > > On 12/5/05, Chris Newell wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > Please find attached the proposed Chapter frame addendum. The zip file > includes an HTML version with images and a plain text version. The addendum > is based on revision 3 and can be applied to v2.3 and v2.4 tags. > > > > If you have any final comments please submit them by the end of this > week. Hopefully, these should only be minor since revision 3 has been > available for quite a while. I'm keen to finalize and publish the document > as soon as possible. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Chris > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Dr J.C. Newell > > Digital Media Group, BBC Research & Development > > Kingswood Warren, Woodland Way, Tadworth, Surrey > > KT20 6NP UK > > mailto:chris.newell at rd.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd > > Tel: +44 (0)1737 839659 > > Switchboard: +44 1737 839500 > > Fax: +44 (0)1737 839665 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From id3v2 at audiott.com Tue Dec 6 08:05:51 2005 From: id3v2 at audiott.com (Michal Vician) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:05:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: [ID3 Dev] Chapter frame addendum In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.2.20051202170346.02de9e18@pop3> Message-ID: <30700.195.91.64.52.1133885151.squirrel@195.91.64.52> No final comments... That addendum is OK Miso > Looks good to me... > > Pyt. > > > On 12/5/05, Chris Newell wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> If you have any final comments please submit them by the end of this >> week. >> Hopefully, these should only be minor since revision 3 has been >> available >> for quite a while. I'm keen to finalize and publish the document as soon >> as >> possible. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From andykim78 at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 01:18:18 2005 From: andykim78 at gmail.com (Andy Kim) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 01:18:18 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Apology and introduction Message-ID: <36ECCA94-3E3F-4BD3-99C1-9CD0AE95AEEF@gmail.com> Dear List, After asking the question in the previous email, I discovered the way to get past messages in the mailing list and I can now see that the iTunes issue has been sufficiently covered. I did not know that the situation with the v2.4 tags were that bad. Ouch. Also, I apologize for not introducing myself properly. My name is Andy Kim and I am one of the programmers behind Podcast Maker at Potion Factory. Podcast Maker is a podcasting software for the Mac that, among other things, produces chaptered m4a (aac) files for iTunes. It is great to see that there is work to extend the ID3 specifications to allow chapters in mp3 files as well. We can definitely support the creation side of it when the specifications are more mature. Is there any work going on or plans towards implementing a client player that understand the chapters in ID3 tags? - Andy Kim Potion Factory http://www.potionfactory.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Wed Dec 14 03:05:21 2005 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:05:21 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Worst cases of "ID3 offenders"? In-Reply-To: <20051109225403.NGTR25752.gx5.fuse.net@avoca> References: <20051109225403.NGTR25752.gx5.fuse.net@avoca> Message-ID: <439FFC71.5070001@northpb.com> Mitchell S. Honnert wrote: > Thanks for all of the responses. If anyone else has any more, keep'em > comin'. Otherwise I'll confirm these and post them to an "ID3 Offenders" > section. > > - Mitchell S. Honnert Mitchell - did you ever collect your list of offending players and their behaviors? If you've created the list, I'd like to put it up on id3.org and start tracking player revision/bugs. Thanks, dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From drabus at gmx.de Fri Dec 9 07:08:01 2005 From: drabus at gmx.de (Daniel Rabus) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:08:01 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation Message-ID: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> Hi, are there any recommendations to map the existing ID3v1 genres to an URI? For any upcoming RDF applications this would be very useful. If there isn't such a standard yet, one way might be to refer to a genre listing and use the URL fragment as identifier. For example: http://www.id3.org/id3v1/genres# Any suggestions or existing solutions? Thanks, Daniel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From drabus at gmx.de Tue Dec 13 09:36:01 2005 From: drabus at gmx.de (Daniel Rabus) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:36:01 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20051213150249.GA10052@ayup.limey.net> References: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> <439EC869.9000201@gmx.de> <20051213150249.GA10052@ayup.limey.net> Message-ID: <439F0681.2080007@gmx.de> Hi Ben, thanks, 'allmusic' offers exactly the information I'm searching for (relations between genres etc.) -- only their URL scheme seems to be not stable. If they change their database IDs or dynamic page generation concept every URI becomes obsolete... Okay, now I know where the data is but cannot use it... :-/ If I use my own URIs, is there one *normative* site listing all the standard and winamp genres? Doing a quick search I've found a couple of sites -- which one is the best to choose? Daniel Ben Bennett wrote: > You could use the allmusic styles. You would have to make a mapping > yourself, but there are far more allmusic styles than the standard > genres (even if you include the winamp ones) so it should be possible, > > Hard rock is: > http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:217 > > -ben > > On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 02:11:05PM +0100, Daniel Rabus wrote: > >>Well, maybe my initial posting was a little bit unclear... >> >>The Problem: There is still a need for some standardized mapping from a >>genre ID to an URI. >> >>Background: In RDF it's essential to refer to a resource using a URI. So >>if I create a RDF description of a MP3 file, like >> >> >> Briskeby >> Propaganda >> >> >> >>then 'xxx' should point to a URI referring the genre "Pop". If the URI >>is resolvable, i.e. an URL, additional human readable information (maybe >>a definition) may be accessible. Also additional statements like "Pop is >>related to PopRock" will be possible. Let's think about search >>engines... :-) >> >>Summary: The ID3 genre ID is a great concept to define the "kind of" >>music. Providing an semantically equivalent URI would raise additional >>benefits -- and allows proper integration into RDF. >> >>Anyone sharing my thoughts? Comments or suggestions? >> >>Daniel >> [snip] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Wed Dec 14 07:27:21 2005 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:27:21 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v2 Chapter Frame Addendum v1.0 published Message-ID: <43A039D9.7030708@northpb.com> Updated ID3.org developer information page http://www.id3.org/develop.html ID3 Chapter (CHAP) and Table of Contents (CTOC) Frames were developed in response to the growth in audio files containing more than one distinct audio program. Podcasts are an example of a single audio file which may contain multiple tracks, stories or other distinct audio entries. The addition of the CHAP and CTOC frames to an ID3 tag will provide compatible players with index information into the audio file. Version 1.0 of the standard was released on December 2, 2005. CTOC & CHAP Frames are compatible with ID3v2.3 and ID3v2.4 tags. ID3v2 Chapter Frame Addendum v1.0 - HTML document http://www.id3.org/id3v2-chapters-1.0.html ID3v2 Chapter Frame Addendum v1.0 - Plain text document http://www.id3.org/id3v2-chapters-1.0.txt --- Updated ID3.org implementations page http://www.id3.org/implement.html - Added Paul Taylor's jaudiotagger java library https://jaudiotagger.dev.java.net/ - Added ID3v2 Chapter Tool - Supports CTOC & CHAP Frames http://sourceforge.net/projects/id3v2-chap-tool - Added Jaikoz tag editor - java app. Windows, Linux and Mac OS X (based on Paul Taylor's library) http://www.jaikoz.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From andykim78 at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 23:12:10 2005 From: andykim78 at gmail.com (Andy Kim) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 23:12:10 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] iTunes id3 tag v2.4 Message-ID: <7EEB8EF3-6729-4430-90C8-4C53D1B2A147@gmail.com> Hi List, I have two files produced by the latest iTunes 6. The source file is the same, they are just tagged with ID3 v2.3 and v2.4. They are attached to this email. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: basic_v24.mp3 Type: audio/mpeg Size: 96493 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: basic_v23.mp3 Type: audio/mpeg Size: 96493 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Now, what I want to know is why the ID3 tag v2.4 file is ignored by most applications and libraries while the v2.3 file is okay. From what I can gather differences between 2.3 and 2.4 are minimal. Actually the only difference between the two files are: 1c1 < 00000000 49 44 33 03 00 00 00 01 1f 3e 54 45 4e 43 00 00 | ID3......>TENC..| --- > 00000000 49 44 33 04 00 00 00 01 1f 3e 54 45 4e 43 00 00 | ID3......>TENC..| 1267c1267 < 00004f80 59 45 52 00 00 00 06 00 00 00 31 39 39 37 00 54 | YER.......1997.T| --- > 00004f80 44 52 43 00 00 00 06 00 00 00 31 39 39 37 00 54 | DRC.......1997.T| [The first file has id3 version 2.3.] I haven't tried everything under the sun, but so far the only two apps I can get to read the id3 v2.4 file are MP3 ID3X and MP3 Rage under Mac OS X. The apps and libraries that cannot read the id3 v2.4 file are: Windows Media Player 9 (haven't tried 10 yet) id3lib and anything that uses id3lib taglib ID3.framework What is going on here? I'm getting the urge to just jump in and code my own id3 tag library, but with so many out there, there's no reason why it should be breaking so badly. Is there something seriously wrong with the iTunes id3 v2.4 implementation? Shouldn't there be a work-around still? - Andy Kim -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From chris.newell at rd.bbc.co.uk Mon Dec 5 01:48:44 2005 From: chris.newell at rd.bbc.co.uk (Chris Newell) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 09:48:44 +0000 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Chapter frame addendum Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20051202170346.02de9e18@pop3> Dear all, Please find attached the proposed Chapter frame addendum. The zip file includes an HTML version with images and a plain text version. The addendum is based on revision 3 and can be applied to v2.3 and v2.4 tags. If you have any final comments please submit them by the end of this week. Hopefully, these should only be minor since revision 3 has been available for quite a while. I'm keen to finalize and publish the document as soon as possible. Best regards, Chris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: addendum.zip Type: application/zip Size: 417821 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr J.C. Newell Digital Media Group, BBC Research & Development Kingswood Warren, Woodland Way, Tadworth, Surrey KT20 6NP UK mailto:chris.newell at rd.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd Tel: +44 (0)1737 839659 Switchboard: +44 1737 839500 Fax: +44 (0)1737 839665 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From drabus at gmx.de Tue Dec 13 05:11:05 2005 From: drabus at gmx.de (Daniel Rabus) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:11:05 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation In-Reply-To: <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <439EC869.9000201@gmx.de> Well, maybe my initial posting was a little bit unclear... The Problem: There is still a need for some standardized mapping from a genre ID to an URI. Background: In RDF it's essential to refer to a resource using a URI. So if I create a RDF description of a MP3 file, like Briskeby Propaganda then 'xxx' should point to a URI referring the genre "Pop". If the URI is resolvable, i.e. an URL, additional human readable information (maybe a definition) may be accessible. Also additional statements like "Pop is related to PopRock" will be possible. Let's think about search engines... :-) Summary: The ID3 genre ID is a great concept to define the "kind of" music. Providing an semantically equivalent URI would raise additional benefits -- and allows proper integration into RDF. Anyone sharing my thoughts? Comments or suggestions? Daniel Mixmaster Slake schrieb: > Why not use the comment field? > > > >> ----- Original message ----- >> From: "Daniel Rabus" >> To: id3v2 at id3.org >> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:08:01 +0100 >> Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation >> >> Hi, >> >> are there any recommendations to map the existing ID3v1 genres to an >> URI? For any upcoming RDF applications this would be very useful. If >> there isn't such a standard yet, one way might be to refer to a genre >> listing and use the URL fragment as identifier. >> >> For example: >> http://www.id3.org/id3v1/genres# >> >> Any suggestions or existing solutions? >> >> Thanks, >> Daniel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From joey2250 at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 19:56:19 2005 From: joey2250 at gmail.com (Joseph Costello) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 03:56:19 +0000 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Chapter frame addendum In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20051202170346.02de9e18@pop3> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20051202170346.02de9e18@pop3> Message-ID: Chris, wondering if you could help me, i was wondering about the TYER frame. I couldnt find a reference to this in the 2.4 native frames text file. I might be missing this but shouldnt the year frame be inculded in the 2.4 standard or did this get replaced with another frame? Thanks, Joe On 12/5/05, Chris Newell wrote: > Dear all, > > Please find attached the proposed Chapter frame addendum. The zip file includes an HTML version with images and a plain text version. The addendum is based on revision 3 and can be applied to v2.3 and v2.4 tags. > > If you have any final comments please submit them by the end of this week. Hopefully, these should only be minor since revision 3 has been available for quite a while. I'm keen to finalize and publish the document as soon as possible. > > Best regards, > > Chris > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Dr J.C. Newell > Digital Media Group, BBC Research & Development > Kingswood Warren, Woodland Way, Tadworth, Surrey > KT20 6NP UK > mailto:chris.newell at rd.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd > Tel: +44 (0)1737 839659 > Switchboard: +44 1737 839500 > Fax: +44 (0)1737 839665 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From id3v2 at northpb.com Wed Dec 14 03:09:42 2005 From: id3v2 at northpb.com (Dan O'Neill) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 03:09:42 -0800 Subject: [ID3 Dev] Link to ID3v2ChapterTool In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20051108091748.02e613e0@pop3> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20051108091748.02e613e0@pop3> Message-ID: <439FFD76.9030108@northpb.com> Chris Newell wrote: > Dan, > > Would it be possible to include a link to the Chapter Frame authoring tool (http://id3v2-chap-tool.sourceforge.net) on the ID3 web site? Done. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From slake09 at fastmail.fm Fri Dec 9 12:27:14 2005 From: slake09 at fastmail.fm (Mixmaster Slake) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 15:27:14 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation In-Reply-To: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> References: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> Why not use the comment field? -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again ----- Original message ----- From: "Daniel Rabus" To: id3v2 at id3.org Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:08:01 +0100 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation Hi, are there any recommendations to map the existing ID3v1 genres to an URI? For any upcoming RDF applications this would be very useful. If there isn't such a standard yet, one way might be to refer to a genre listing and use the URL fragment as identifier. For example: http://www.id3.org/id3v1/genres# Any suggestions or existing solutions? Thanks, Daniel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From mitch at honnert.com Tue Dec 13 08:12:18 2005 From: mitch at honnert.com (Mitchell S. Honnert) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:12:18 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation References: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> <439EC869.9000201@gmx.de> Message-ID: <000e01c5ffff$fe1c0640$87000105@kendle.com> Daniel, as far as I understand it, the ID3 standard is getting away from a predefined set of genres values. There is an appendix of the v1 standard genre values in the v2.3 standard, but the v2.3 standard allows for a free-form genre value, so the "support" for defined genres seems to be tangential at best. From the Content Type (TCON) frame description in the standards... "You may use one or several of the types as ID3v1.1 did or, since the category list would be impossible to maintain with accurate and up to date categories, define your own." My take on this is that genres are so subjective and ever-changing, that maintaining a master list be a fruitless and never-ending effort. Because of this, I think your idea of adding Genre support is going to be a tough sell. I can only speak for myself, but it just seems to run in the opposite direction of the ID3 standard. - Mitchell S. Honnert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Rabus" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation > Well, maybe my initial posting was a little bit unclear... > > The Problem: There is still a need for some standardized mapping from a > genre ID to an URI. > > Background: In RDF it's essential to refer to a resource using a URI. So > if I create a RDF description of a MP3 file, like > > > Briskeby > Propaganda > > > > then 'xxx' should point to a URI referring the genre "Pop". If the URI > is resolvable, i.e. an URL, additional human readable information (maybe > a definition) may be accessible. Also additional statements like "Pop is > related to PopRock" will be possible. Let's think about search > engines... :-) > > Summary: The ID3 genre ID is a great concept to define the "kind of" > music. Providing an semantically equivalent URI would raise additional > benefits -- and allows proper integration into RDF. > > Anyone sharing my thoughts? Comments or suggestions? > > Daniel > > > Mixmaster Slake schrieb: >> Why not use the comment field? >> >> >> > >>> ----- Original message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Rabus" >>> To: id3v2 at id3.org >>> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:08:01 +0100 >>> Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> are there any recommendations to map the existing ID3v1 genres to an >>> URI? For any upcoming RDF applications this would be very useful. If >>> there isn't such a standard yet, one way might be to refer to a genre >>> listing and use the URL fragment as identifier. >>> >>> For example: >>> http://www.id3.org/id3v1/genres# >>> >>> Any suggestions or existing solutions? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Daniel > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org From fiji at ayup.limey.net Tue Dec 13 13:16:42 2005 From: fiji at ayup.limey.net (Ben Bennett) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:16:42 -0500 Subject: [ID3 Dev] ID3v1 Genre URI Recommendation In-Reply-To: <439F0681.2080007@gmx.de> References: <43999DD1.4080200@gmx.de> <1134160034.21017.249448068@webmail.messagingengine.com> <439EC869.9000201@gmx.de> <20051213150249.GA10052@ayup.limey.net> <439F0681.2080007@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20051213211642.GA20186@ayup.limey.net> I can say that their style and genre IDs have been stable for at least 5 years now. The artist and album IDs are scrambled so that there are many scrambled ones generated for the real internal ID, but they are also stable. So if you have a scrambled ID you will be able to link in to AMG, but you can not compare one ID against the other to see if they refer to the same artist. I use the genre list from the appendix of the 2.3.0 spec: http://www.id3.org/id3v2.3.0.html#secA -ben On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 06:36:01PM +0100, Daniel Rabus wrote: > Hi Ben, > > thanks, 'allmusic' offers exactly the information I'm searching for > (relations between genres etc.) -- only their URL scheme seems to be not > stable. If they change their database IDs or dynamic page generation > concept every URI becomes obsolete... > > Okay, now I know where the data is but cannot use it... :-/ > > > If I use my own URIs, is there one *normative* site listing all the > standard and winamp genres? Doing a quick search I've found a couple of > sites -- which one is the best to choose? > > Daniel > > > Ben Bennett wrote: > >You could use the allmusic styles. You would have to make a mapping > >yourself, but there are far more allmusic styles than the standard > >genres (even if you include the winamp ones) so it should be possible, > > > >Hard rock is: > > http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:217 > > > > -ben > > > >On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 02:11:05PM +0100, Daniel Rabus wrote: > > > >>Well, maybe my initial posting was a little bit unclear... > >> > >>The Problem: There is still a need for some standardized mapping from a > >>genre ID to an URI. > >> > >>Background: In RDF it's essential to refer to a resource using a URI. So > >>if I create a RDF description of a MP3 file, like > >> > >> > >> Briskeby > >> Propaganda > >> > >> > >> > >>then 'xxx' should point to a URI referring the genre "Pop". If the URI > >>is resolvable, i.e. an URL, additional human readable information (maybe > >>a definition) may be accessible. Also additional statements like "Pop is > >>related to PopRock" will be possible. Let's think about search > >>engines... :-) > >> > >>Summary: The ID3 genre ID is a great concept to define the "kind of" > >>music. Providing an semantically equivalent URI would raise additional > >>benefits -- and allows proper integration into RDF. > >> > >>Anyone sharing my thoughts? Comments or suggestions? > >> > >>Daniel > >> > [snip] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org > For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: id3v2-unsubscribe at id3.org For additional commands, e-mail: id3v2-help at id3.org