[ID3 Dev] Genre suggestion

[Ben Allison]

Tom,

I think you might be taking this a bit too far.  Or at least certainly
beyond the scope of an ID3v2 tag :)

It could certainly be useful even if it's insecure.  What if I want to put
my music collection on 'shuffle' for a party, but want to easily filter
out anything with inappropriate lyrics.  Or I'm preparing a setlist for a
radio show - I couldn't play an unedited 'Money' from Pink Floyd's DSOM on
the air, even though the rest of the album (and the rest of the
discography) is OK.

-Ben

> The only solution is to have it as part of a DRM wrapper. Something
> that is, in theory, not changeable or removable. There is absolutely
> no other way to do it that's not easily circumventable.
>
> In theory you could do it outside of such a method, in something like
> an ID3 tag, but only if you force every toolset and library to
> recognize, support, and refuse to "downgrade" the flag. But even then
> anyone with a compiler and source code (or even a specification) could
> circumvent it; it's just a matter of how difficult it is to do.
>
> And I would like to point out that all of the similar efforts to do
> such automatic ratings and restrictions has either been a market
> failure (V-chip) or reasonably easy to disable/fool/circumvent (web
> surfing software). It winds up being a parental responsibility to
> educate and trust your children. And yes, I have two girls of my own.
>
> That said, pursuing such a system is not inherently bad. Go for it.
> But you'll have to get Apple and Microsoft to buy in (and hopefully
> come to a common standard) or else it won't succeed -- they're the two
> big guys on the block at this point, especially Apple with its
> combined hardware and software sales.
>
> And yes, multiple levels of designation are definitely a good idea.
>
> Tom
>
> On 9/15/06, Pat Furrie <pfurrie at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> Now, I don't know if Tim's suggestion is workable.  But he does bring up
>> a
>> problem he's at least giving some thought to solving, and I'm certain
>> other
>> people have had this as a problem with which to deal.  It's the sort of
>> thing that brought about the ratings codes in movies (quite some time
>> ago)
>> and ratings on TV (more recently).  I've got kids of my own who I want
>> to
>> have some way of helping distinguish which music is appropriate.
>>
>> You've pointed out a couple of challenges.  Perhaps you could provide
>> some
>> constructive analysis.  Devil's advocate is too easy; anyone can do
>> that.
>> But as they say, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the
>> problem.  Tim isn't looking for why it won't work, he's looking for ways
>> to
>> make it work.
>>
>> Tim: I'd like to see a set of method with more granularity than just
>> "adult"
>> or not.  "Adult" is a bit slippery, and is defined differently by
>> different
>> people.  However, the existance of certain key words and concepts are
>> more
>> objective.  You might want to look at how TV has done ratings, and model
>> it
>> after that.  This way any "adult content" tag methodology could leverage
>> the
>> methods already adopted, and be more universal across media types
>> (meaning,
>> not just audio files).
>>
>> We could nay-say and do nothing, or we can get off our butts and do
>> something.  Even if something doesn't work, I'd rather have tried to
>> make it
>> work than not.
>>
>> Fail fast, succeed sooner.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>> >From: "Tom Sorensen" <tsorensen at gmail.com>
>> >Reply-To: id3v2 at id3.org
>> >To: id3v2 at id3.org
>> >Subject: Re: [ID3 Dev] Genre suggestion
>> >Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:20:40 -0400
>> >
>> >If you want a new Genre, just make one. There is no list of
>> >pre-defined genres for ID3v2. You'd then have to modify whatever
>> >player to not play any music that belonged in that genre (and see
>> >below for the issues with that).
>> >
>> >But that's not what you really want. You want a flag that a music
>> >player would have to check before playing (or, since you seem
>> >concerned about the title, before even displaying). Certainly
>> >possible; there are other similar flags in the ID3v2 spec currently.
>> >
>> >I'll go ahead and object to it as pointless though. Since:
>> >
>> >A) nobody implements anything like this in current players (software
>> >or hardware), and it would be 3-5 years before that would change (and
>> >that's being optimistic; more likely it would never be implemented.
>> >ID3v2.4 is 5 years old now and still has very low uptake),
>> >
>> >B) it would be completely trivial to bypass and/or disable anyway
>> >since you cannot prevent someone from changing the tag (or removing it
>> >entirely).
>> >
>> >Tom Sorensen
>> >
>> >On 9/15/06, Tim Reinarts <tim_reinarts at soniqcast.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Do you have any provisions in the latest spec for adding an "adult
>> >>content"
>> >>genre category?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I would propose that such a tag would allow parents to control the
>> content
>> >>being used by their children.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Media player manufacturers can then implement a feature that allows
>> >>parents
>> >>to prevent the player from accessing files with an Adult Content
>> genre.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>It concerns me that some of the most popular content on many sites
>> like
>> >>MTV's URGE are songs with explicit titles.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Regards,
>> >>
>> >>Tim Reinarts
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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