From pvh at songbirdnest.com  Thu May  8 11:48:55 2008
From: pvh at songbirdnest.com (Peter van Hardenberg)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ID3 Dev] TIPL and TCOM.
In-Reply-To: <2120855.225681210272220798.JavaMail.root@mail>
Message-ID: <21956589.226781210272535538.JavaMail.root@mail>

TIPL can hold many values, in alternating "role/person" format. If TCOM is not set, there may still be a "composer"/"Mozart" among the TIPL/IPLS values. Simply setting "TIPL" to "The Doughnut Guy" is incorrect usage. Better would be:

"Cover Art Designer" / "Salvador Dali" / "Mixer" / "Poseidon" / "Intern" / "Ryan the Doughnut Guy"

in which case, you could definitely search the list for a "composer" or a "producer" or some other reasonably established title. I should add that only one TIPL(2.4)/IPLS(2.3) frame is ever permitted in a tag.

As for the rating, I am perfectly capable of drawing my own lousy conclusions from existing examples. Instead, I am asking on the ID3v2 developers list in the hope of getting a reasonably canonical response, or at least a sense of how decided the subject is. 

You may have noticed, as I see you are a subscriber to the TagLib list, but I've been investing time in a patch to improve TagLib support for these kinds of problems so that more applications might actually make use of them in a consistent way, and I'd like to do it right the first time.

-pvh

----- "Tom Sorensen" <tsorensen at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Peter van Hardenberg
> <pvh at songbirdnest.com> wrote:
> > Should a full, correct ID3v2 implementation check TIPL for a
> composer if the TCOM frame is not present?
> 
> For what purpose?
> 
> If TCOM is not present, you certainly cannot tell what TIPL may hold
> (on the rare occasion that either one is actually set). TIPL could
> include things like the cover art designer, the mixer, and even the
> intern who ran out and got doughnuts every morning.
> 
> > Is POPL the only, best way to store ratings? What is the recommended
> method for storing rating information for an application which is not
> going to store user emails or play counts?
> 
> I presume you mean POPM, as there is no standard POPL frame. Again,
> rarely used, but it's the only thing in the standard for that kind of
> thing. I'm not sure what other players do; iTunes stores its info in
> its own database.
> 
> > TXXX:Rating?
> 
> Doesn't matter much -- once you're using a TXXX frame then there's no
> standard at all. Your best bet is to see what other players do and
> copy it (either POPM or their own TXXX frame) if you want to be able
> to exchange the data.
> 
> Tom Sorensen
> 
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From tsorensen at gmail.com  Thu May  8 11:08:08 2008
From: tsorensen at gmail.com (Tom Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:08:08 -0400
Subject: [ID3 Dev] TIPL and TCOM.
In-Reply-To: <31409737.223261210266915645.JavaMail.root@mail>
References: <31409737.223261210266915645.JavaMail.root@mail>
Message-ID: <4da424620805081108s38e160d8mffe61baf6c6f589@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Peter van Hardenberg
<pvh at songbirdnest.com> wrote:
> Should a full, correct ID3v2 implementation check TIPL for a composer if the TCOM frame is not present?

For what purpose?

If TCOM is not present, you certainly cannot tell what TIPL may hold
(on the rare occasion that either one is actually set). TIPL could
include things like the cover art designer, the mixer, and even the
intern who ran out and got doughnuts every morning.

> Is POPL the only, best way to store ratings? What is the recommended method for storing rating information for an application which is not going to store user emails or play counts?

I presume you mean POPM, as there is no standard POPL frame. Again,
rarely used, but it's the only thing in the standard for that kind of
thing. I'm not sure what other players do; iTunes stores its info in
its own database.

> TXXX:Rating?

Doesn't matter much -- once you're using a TXXX frame then there's no
standard at all. Your best bet is to see what other players do and
copy it (either POPM or their own TXXX frame) if you want to be able
to exchange the data.

Tom Sorensen

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From treaves at silverfieldstech.com  Sun May 11 09:42:17 2008
From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:42:17 -0400
Subject: [ID3 Dev] ASPI questions
Message-ID: <AC2C0BB6-0CC0-4C9F-96DD-8B424E79C1EF@silverfieldstech.com>

The 2.4.0 documentation has:

*) 'Indexed data start' is a byte offset from the beginning of the file.

Is this the start of the physical file, or the start of the sound  
within the file?  If the former, that means the ID3 library would have  
to recalculate the frame on any modification of the file, and as the  
frame could be modified by a non-compliant encoder, the likelihood of  
it's being wrong is pretty high.



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From treaves at silverfieldstech.com  Sun May 11 09:29:59 2008
From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:29:59 -0400
Subject: [ID3 Dev] ETCO frame questions
Message-ID: <9D31A1D2-B5E3-48DF-BF64-6C2BEE521DB7@silverfieldstech.com>

The 2.4.0 documentation doesn't explain the following two items very  
well:

1) The 'Time stamp' is set to zero if directly at the beginning of the  
sound or after the previous event.
Does this mean that any event occurring at the beginning of a sound  
file has a zero timestamp?  Because at the start of the sound file,  
how could it be anything else?

Does the second clause mean that two events, occurring at the same  
position in the sound file, will have the second events timestamp set  
to zero?


And for the event type:
2) $FF  one more byte of events follows (all the following bytes with  
the value $FF have the same function)

Does this go with "Time stamp      $xx (xx ...)"?  If so, does it mean  
that a timestamp that requires more than one byte has the format $xx  
$FF $xx , so that a two-byte timestamp uses three bytes to code for it?

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From pvh at songbirdnest.com  Thu May  8 10:17:11 2008
From: pvh at songbirdnest.com (Peter van Hardenberg)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ID3 Dev] Rating
Message-ID: <27732849.223321210267031885.JavaMail.root@mail>

Is POPL the only, best way to store ratings? What is the recommended method for storing rating information for an application which is not going to store user emails or play counts?

TXXX:Rating?

-pvh

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From treaves at silverfieldstech.com  Fri May  9 12:50:39 2008
From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:50:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ID3 Dev] frame questions
Message-ID: <49258.70.198.39.129.1210362639.squirrel@mail.silverfieldstech.com>

Kind of surprising that the id3.org website doesn't seem to have clarified
some of he frames over the years.  I have questions on several, where the
2.4.0 documentation isn't specific (so much for editors :) ).  Has anyone
collected updates/clarifications?  I can't seem to find a wiki or
anything.

So should I just address the questions to the list?


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From fiji at ayup.limey.net  Sun May 11 13:16:29 2008
From: fiji at ayup.limey.net (Ben Bennett)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 16:16:29 -0400
Subject: [ID3 Dev] frame questions
In-Reply-To: <49258.70.198.39.129.1210362639.squirrel@mail.silverfieldstech.com>
References: <49258.70.198.39.129.1210362639.squirrel@mail.silverfieldstech.com>
Message-ID: <20080511201628.GA27255@ayup.limey.net>

On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 03:50:39PM -0400, Timothy Reaves wrote: 
> I can't seem to find a wiki or anything.

id3.org _is_ a wiki.

You need to sign up to get access though.  But clarifications should
certainly go on the site.

The list is probably the best way to get answers first though.

			-ben

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From jmartin_92 at verizon.net  Fri May  9 14:22:55 2008
From: jmartin_92 at verizon.net (Jim)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 17:22:55 -0400
Subject: [ID3 Dev] frame questions
In-Reply-To: <49258.70.198.39.129.1210362639.squirrel@mail.silverfieldstech.com>
References: <49258.70.198.39.129.1210362639.squirrel@mail.silverfieldstech.com>
Message-ID: <4824C0AF.5070103@verizon.net>

It is possible that there have been discussions or clarifications of the 
frames you have questions about done thru the mailing list and you might 
find them by searching the mailing list archive.  Otherwise, outside of 
the changes you can find on the website I think you'd just have to ask 
about them here.

Timothy Reaves wrote:
> Kind of surprising that the id3.org website doesn't seem to have clarified
> some of he frames over the years.  I have questions on several, where the
> 2.4.0 documentation isn't specific (so much for editors :) ).  Has anyone
> collected updates/clarifications?  I can't seem to find a wiki or
> anything.
> 
> So should I just address the questions to the list?
> 
> 
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From treaves at silverfieldstech.com  Sun May 11 09:34:42 2008
From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:34:42 -0400
Subject: [ID3 Dev] APIC question
Message-ID: <7A96C5FB-7AD9-4AC1-9923-573B7A5EE6B9@silverfieldstech.com>

For the picture type, the 2.4.0 documentation has "$11  A bright  
coloured fish".  Is this just someone's (poor) attempt at humor?

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From pvh at songbirdnest.com  Thu May  8 10:15:15 2008
From: pvh at songbirdnest.com (Peter van Hardenberg)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:15:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ID3 Dev] TIPL and TCOM.
Message-ID: <31409737.223261210266915645.JavaMail.root@mail>

Should a full, correct ID3v2 implementation check TIPL for a composer if the TCOM frame is not present?

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