[ID3 Dev] Contextual Granularity in id3 Tags

Jim jmartin92 at comcast.net
Sat Jul 7 16:40:46 PDT 2007

Hi Tom.

I think I understand what you are going for here.  However, I think you 
might have two separate issues:  (1) the actual content of the tag and 
(2) the way that information is handled by different software/hardware 
players or other tag handling & playlist apps

For issue 1, I think the current frame structure of 2.3 or 2.4 tags can 
already handle all the information you have.  If you look at the 
definition of the TPE frames, you could use TPE1 for the main artist, 
TPE2 for the "featured" artist and TPE4 (and/or TPE3) for even more 
artist information.

For the first example you used I would envision something like:
	TPE1: Deepsky
	TPE2: feat. Jes Brieden
	TPE4: vs. Yilmaz Altanhan

	TIT2: Ghost vs. Eighties
	TIT3: AvB Mashup

Or something like that for the frames in the tag.  (Personally, I really 
don't think the what you call the "glue" needs to be a separate piece of 
information as removing the "feat." or "vs." could be handled on the 
software side of the search.)

I think issue 2 is your bigger problem.  Even if you rewrite the entire 
standard as you were talking about, you would still be relying on the 
software and hardware developers to allow you to properly (and hopefully 
easily) put the artist information in the proper frames and then allow 
you to reassemble it or define various searches.  Even though v2.3 and 
v2.4 already allow for different artist frames I am sure we have all 
seen software that only writes to one artist frame.  Or likewise, if you 
have the information in the different frames I'm sure you can find some 
software/hardware players that will only read certain parts of it and 
ignore other related frames.

If you have certain favorite players or apps that you use, perhaps it 
would be better to concentrate your efforts on getting that app or 
player to support more of the frames already defined and to allow for 
more "fuzzy" type searches of the different frames.

I also think you'd have better luck finding playlist generation software 
that can be used for you to make these types of playlists and then 
upload them onto your portable.  I know...that's not really fixing the 
problem for on-the-fly playlist generation but as you pointed out many 
hardware players don't have much in the way of searching and I would 
guess it is easier to get software patched/updated with new features 
than it is for the firmware of your hardware player.)


Tom Corelis wrote:
> Hello everyone,
 > <snip>
> Among some genres of music, it is very common to have a single track
> with multiple artists or bands involved (aka context). For example,
> take the following tracks:
> 1.    Deepsky feat. Jes Brieden vs. Yilmaz Altanhan - Ghost vs. Eighties
> (AvB mashup)
> 2.    Markus Schulz Feat Departure - Without You Near (Coldharbour Mix)
> The first example has three (possibly four) different artists, each
> with a different relationship to this version of the song. The second
> example also has three different artists, although the artists'
> relationships are much simpler. Given the current id3v2 tagging
> scheme, artist information that is identified by the computer as
> artist information is limited to a single string of text. This creates
> a problem for people's music libraries, which (afaik) distinguish
> artists by the artist string irregardless of context, even if we human
> beings know the artists are the same: "Deepsky" is a different artist
> than "Deepsky feat. Jes Brieden" and the computer has no way to
> identify "Jes Brieden" should the user want to pull her up. This, in
> turn, creates a problem for those of us who use Smart Playlists or
> some other form of procedural playlist generation, or more
> importantly, those of us using portable music players.

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